trparkyIt tends to sway the direction in which the industry moves. If you can't see that, I don't know how to convince you.

Linux already has hefty industry support from it's dominance of everything server, so if that's your worry we won that war long ago.

R-T-BLinux already has hefty industry support from it's dominance of everything server

Don't get me wrong, there's no other OS other than Linux that I'd feel comfortable with being a web server. Granted IIS has come a long way from being jokingly called It Isn't Secure but I wouldn't put any money on it. Not at all.

When it comes to a dependable platform upon which you can build web applications upon, Linux is the only OS that I'd trust.

R-T-BThings linux needs to overcome to become a desktop distro I can think of includes shedding the insane learning curve, but some distros already do that. Install them, not gentoo like me. See? Choice good.

And here is the problem. The average user doesn't know from where to start. If they ask one person they will get one answer (if they are lucky) and there is hope they will eventually start from somewhere. If they ask five person, they will get 10 answers. And that's just the first problem. I also go with Ubuntu when I want to have a look at current Linux, but there are so many other distros out there with many supporters that, after installing Ubuntu, I ask myself "Was this the correct distro to install?". When you start with uncertainty, with the first hiccup of the system - software not working, driver not installed - you start blaming the distro. Then try another, something else is different, something is better, but also something is worst, you blame that distro, you try a third, the same happens, you format the partition you throw Micky Mouse on that partition and watch it from within Windows having peace of mind. Is Windows perfect? Of course not. Microsoft is messing up with it's OS all the time, but you have one or two versions of Windows at any time. This period is either 10 or 11. So a problem on any of them gets on the news and probably gets fixed. With a gazillion of distros, means anything doesn't working needs personal search on the Internet to find a fix. And what if you don't know sh!t? What exactly do you try to fix?

We shouldn't forget one basic thing. When we have experience with something we also have answers. When we don't have the answers, we at least know the questions we have to ask. The average user doesn't even know the questions. To try to use something new, that needs to be both simplified and ONE thing, not 100. Because it doesn't work. It works with the individual, not with the public.

R-T-BThe 90s were a mess in general man. Got anything more relevant?

In 1999 it was quit simple. Just go to your university, download the 6(I think) CDs of SuSE, burn them with your CDRW and install it. The end. Was everything working? Absolutely not. But you had a starting point. Where other distributions out there? Yes. But SuSE was the one promoted the most (and RedHat), at least in my University, so you did had a starting point. Ubuntu was the name most promoted the last 15 years, but there are also so many others out there that you are totally confused before even starting.

R-T-BAnd you misunderstand me... if we have to sacrifice choice for world domination, then world domination is overrated.

No one says to sacrifice choice. Just come out with a universal distro. Let's call it NOOB.

Go at the site of Linux Distro 1 and have two options to download. The universally promoted and supported and pushed to the general public and all manufacturers NOOB and under it Distro 1.
Go at the site of Linux Distro 2 and have two options to download. The universally promoted and supported and pushed to the general public and all manufacturers NOOB and under it Distro 2.
Go at the site of Linux Distro 3 and have two options to download. The universally promoted and supported and pushed to the general public and all manufacturers NOOB and under it Distro 3.
Go at the site of Linux Distro 4 and have two options to download. The universally promoted and supported and pushed to the general public and all manufacturers NOOB and under it Distro 4.
Go at the site of Linux Distro 5 and have two options to download. The universally promoted and supported and pushed to the general public and all manufacturers NOOB and under it Distro 5.
Go at the site of Linux Distro 6 and have two options to download. The universally promoted and supported and pushed to the general public and all manufacturers NOOB and under it Distro 6.
..............e.t.c.

Is someone new to Linux. He asks TEN people he gets ONE answer "Install NOOB".
Is someone more advanced in Linux and wants more options, more freedom, more customization? There are Distros 1,2,3,4,5,6...... to choose.

I only just jumped on W10 last yr full time, as far as I was concerned it needed that time to get out of Beta and I am happy with it so far for the most part until it breaks........Still think W7 was a alot better more reliable OS. W11 is a disgrace of a OS, it looks good but thats about all I like about it. So after the death of W10 unless MS can make a OS better then 10/7 or on par then I will be going to Linux full time. I have used Linux many times in the passed and for a basic OS to do the basic things on its perfectly fine, but I like to game so.........but does look that they are making big head ways in that area which is good. Only time will tell but I cant see myself using a Windows OS after the death of 10.

Melvisbut I cant see myself using a Windows OS after the death of 10.

They will eventually restore that "never combine" option to Windows 11 taskbar and make it usable again as a desktop OS. :p

But yeah, I am on the same frequency with you. Coundn't find drivers for the integrated Radeon on my R5 4600G, so I had to say goodbye to Windows 7 in the start of this year. I mean, my Windows 7 installation lasted more than 8 years without a hiccup and I had originally installed it on AM3+ platform with a 6 core Thuban. Then used that same installation with an Intel 4th gen i5, then back to the AM3+ then to AM4, never needed to reinstall it. Working perfectly all this time.

trparkyI swear to God that Steam might be the only guys on planet that might be able to bring about a single distro of Linux for the masses.

Every time I look at the Linux community it feels like the inmates are running the asylum.

Yes, SteamOS and SteamDeck are steps in the right direction that given much needed focus to Linux community. However, if Steam manages to push this, they would be very over-powered company, so I expect that they will have little support in this project.

Single Linux distro with proper account management, long term support - so one can expect that software made now works within 10 years from now and proper gaming will finally allow Linux to overcome Windows.

On the other side, Windows is abandoned, whatever MS says... It is going to decay slowly, as universal Desktop PC becomes thing of the past. Why? Beats me... We will move everything to the cloud and big companies will be very happy.

MelvisI only just jumped on W10 last yr full time, as far as I was concerned it needed that time to get out of Beta and I am happy with it so far for the most part until it breaks........Still think W7 was a alot better more reliable OS. W11 is a disgrace of a OS, it looks good but thats about all I like about it. So after the death of W10 unless MS can make a OS better then 10/7 or on par then I will be going to Linux full time. I have used Linux many times in the passed and for a basic OS to do the basic things on its perfectly fine, but I like to game so.........but does look that they are making big head ways in that area which is good. Only time will tell but I cant see myself using a Windows OS after the death of 10.

Actually, Windows 11 is far more stable and useful than Windows 10. They did fuck-up with taskbar, but it is quite easily solvable so far.
But problem is lack of development - no new apps, except PWA junk further integrated with "services"... Google route, just in Microsoft way of doing things...

mb194dcThe main Linux distros are still so unintuitive and annoying to use. We've seen with phone and other OS built on Linux that is's very possible to have a decent user interface on top of the Linux kernel...

Windows has massively regressed in the last 14 years or so and frankly it should be ripe for the picking. Once games widely work on Linux I wouldn't be surprised if it's ultimately game over for Windows, with browser based apps replacing legacy windows installed ones.

That would be the natural evolution.

Try MX linux or Mint and tell me if it's unintuitive. Windows is out of control these days. Windows 2000 era is over. Now it's Micro$oft taking control of your PC. Mac OS is also quite hard to use for a windows user. And the best advantage of Linux is that there will always be someone to maintain what is good whereas in Windows and Mac OS, users are at their respective corporation's mercy.

yannus1Try MX linux or Mint and tell me if it's unintuitive. Windows is out of control these days. Windows 2000 era is over. Now it's Micro$oft taking control of your PC. Mac OS is also quite hard to use for a windows user. And the best advantage of Linux is that there will always be someone to maintain what is good whereas in Windows and Mac OS, users are at their respective corporation's mercy.

You can also try Zorin Linux as well. I kind of like it myself.

NOW. One of the reasons also that I have dealt with on a professional basis years ago is the sheer arrogance of people and their Egos on how they hover their expertise over the plebs.

When I was reporting the news over 20+ years ago I ran into that same problem that still exists today.

Back then the only company that did not look down on me was SuSE. Man they knew back then what the issues were going to be and they understood that the average person wants plug and play and Ease of use. Then the DoT com bubble burst and SuSE was crippled on their goals.

But I had mad respect for them back then as they tried to implement something that could have been a game changer.

Instead, after 20+ years later we still have the same damn problem.

Slash dots and egos.

I chose Zorin as it felt like Windows overall and when the time comes I'm going in completely with Zorin, because.

I've already seen the writing on the wall about the Windows OS and I want no part of that future.

Icon CharlieSlash dots and egos.

That's definitely another problem that the Linux community still has. The letters RTFM come to mind, which stands for Read The F***ing Manual. Granted, it may not be as toxic inside the Linux community as it once was, it still exists in one way or another.

Maybe much of my negativity of Linux comes from how the early Linux community treated people back then. They weren't exactly nice to people calling them all kinds of names including the word n00b and that was one of the nicer words they used. Compare that to the Apple community and the Apple community is like a bunch of saints.

trparkyThat's definitely another problem that the Linux community still has. The letters RTFM come to mind, which stands for Read The F***ing Manual. Granted, it may not be as toxic inside the Linux community as it once was, it still exists in one way or another.

Maybe much of my negativity of Linux comes from how the early Linux community treated people back then. They weren't exactly nice to people calling them all kinds of names including the word n00b and that was one of the nicer words they used. Compare that to the Apple community and the Apple community is like a bunch of saints.

Well, we don't use Linux for superficial reasons but because free and open source software is THE answer. Whatever distro we use, whoever we talk to in forums, the only thing that matters is that we need freedom and sovereignty.

linux is leading operating system, you are just disoriented by the fact the people have simpler solutions installed on most pcs

mb194dcThe main Linux distros are still so unintuitive and annoying to use. We've seen with phone and other OS built on Linux that is's very possible to have a decent user interface on top of the Linux kernel...

Windows has massively regressed in the last 14 years or so and frankly it should be ripe for the picking. Once games widely work on Linux I wouldn't be surprised if it's ultimately game over for Windows, with browser based apps replacing legacy windows installed ones.

That would be the natural evolution.

yeah man, now that windows eleventy Has these same crazy system requirements as windows/386 did while offer none of That massive LIST OF ENHANCEMENTS/Kernel IMPROVEMENTS i Might as well go whole-hog on something crazy like steamos


i mean, if they are cutting support 5 years early, what else Is a sane man supposed to do?

Well, I've tried recently on VirtualBOX Debian and Fedora Workstation - well, I'm just too lazy to install it to our old laptop because we never use it anymore, but if we'll need a PC for simple web-browsing or text typing, Linux could do that easy. I don't see a problem using libreoffice, it could do easily things on a basic level, and I feel really b*tthurt when some college teacher says "ooh sorry I can't help you I don't know wtf is installed on your laptop, see we have a $$$ license here and be good use this "cloud"-cr*pware office so I can help you doing your homework".
Once I'll be some retired person who won't play games anymore or do some works on PC and use it for web browsing I could easily use Linux definitely....

defaultluseryeah man, now that windows eleventy Has these same crazy system requirements as windows/386 did while offer none of That massive LIST OF ENHANCEMENTS/Kernel IMPROVEMENTS i Might as well go whole-hog on something crazy like steamos


i mean, if they are cutting support 5 years early, what else Is a sane man supposed to do?

these system requirements are "crazy" just for people sitting still on some Core2Duo/AM2-3 sockets, and now 4GB of RAM instead of usual 2 putting them into shock. Windows Vista was great when you put it on 4 GB RAM instead of 2 required. But, lol, even by Vista time 2 GB was "low end", and 4 GB was "OK". There are only stupid Win 11 requirements like TPM or some era processor which easily could be passed and besides this there are no any "crazy" requirements lmfao

AleXXX666Well, I've tried recently on VirtualBOX Debian and Fedora Workstation - well, I'm just too lazy to install it to our old laptop because we never use it anymore, but if we'll need a PC for simple web-browsing or text typing, Linux could do that easy. I don't see a problem using libreoffice, it could do easily things on a basic level, and I feel really b*tthurt when some college teacher says "ooh sorry I can't help you I don't know wtf is installed on your laptop, see we have a $$$ license here and be good use this "cloud"-cr*pware office so I can help you doing your homework".
Once I'll be some retired person who won't play games anymore or do some works on PC and use it for web browsing I could easily use Linux definitely....


these system requirements are "crazy" just for people sitting still on some Core2Duo/AM2-3 sockets, and now 4GB of RAM instead of usual 2 putting them into shock. Windows Vista was great when you put it on 4 GB RAM instead of 2 required. But, lol, even by Vista time 2 GB was "low end", and 4 GB was "OK". There are only stupid Win 11 requirements like TPM or some era processor which easily could be passed and besides this there are no any "crazy" requirements lmfao

you also have to accept one of the most brain-dead desktop redesign since windows 8, plus completely broken context menus

TPM requirements are only part it!

john_And here is the problem. The average user doesn't know from where to start.

Ubuntu. There, I fixed it.

Honestly, if you start your question with "as a linux noob" most any answer you get will work fine.

R0H1TMaybe they'll get the next 3% within our lifetimes, or maybe not :ohwell:

"Linux is used to power 96.3% of the world's top web servers.
In fact, 96.3% account for the servers which use Linux and it is one of the top one million. Windows (1.9%), and FreeBSD 1.8%) are the main players.10 jul 2022"

Desktop is not interesting for linux.

defaultluserTPM requirements are only part it!

You download Win 11 with the mediaCreationTool. You use an actual version of Rufusto get Win11 onto a USB stick. You select the appropriate switches. You install from this stick. You don't need TPM for install and running Win 11. There are workarounds for a lot of M$-wishes. You can install Win11 also offline without an online account,... There are a lot of small programs fixing the awful broken UI. All of that Linux has onboard. I had a comparism of using Win/Lin a few weeks ago. The win11 installer refused to install because of a lack of requirements like the TPM. I used a long time Win10. Then i had to get Win11 because of software i use professionally. They are made by M$ like i.e. 3D Builder. As it is not guaranteed that this certain app in future runs on Win10 i had to change. I installed Linux and it was ok. The UI was still to work on. All major applications i used were available on Linux. Then i tested Win11. It took me one whole week to get the UI looks as i could work with it.

Also on Linux there are still problems. LibreOffice sometimes take a long time to calculate workbooks. That is horrible if it calculates directly upfront a automated save and one can get to the kitchen for a cup of coffee coming back to see that the calculation isn't finished yet. One has to migrate his data to new programs. I.e. using Evolution as a groupware program and directly importing the outlook pst. But all of that is possible ant working.

In my case three programs don't work with Linux. The Program used to scan with my 3D scanner (Creality), a special cRM System (combit) and my control software for the electronics of my watercooling loop (AquaComputer). To say it more defined and clearly. I haven't checked if they can run via Wine. For two of them i found a different way to work. I use a windows servide partition to run AquaComputers AquaSuite to configure the electronics. I develop an own system substituting combit cRM. Ony the 3D Scanner is a bit tricky. Either i buy a notebook only for driving the scanner or i will have to buy an other scanner with software running on Linux.

JismDesktop is not interesting for linux.

I mean, it is, but... the reason Linux won't take off as a desktop OS is that it's far too fragmented and instead of settling on a standard, developers will bicker endlessly as to what distro does X or Y better, completely unwilling to reach a compromise and create an unified standard. Even something as simple as systemd, which actually gained quite a bit of popularity in the Linux sphere, is the subject of protracted arguments, conflicts and the source of deep rifts in Linux communities because while a distro developer thinks systemd is adequate, the other rebels against it because it's supposedly too popular and they're 2 kool 4 skool, all at the same time a third would rather not implement it because they have a competing solution of their own and is vying for that same attention - in the meantime, the fourth nerd is bragging about how he wrote his own system daemon from scratch and the other 3 guys are scrubs, not even a mere text editor is free from this conflict.

The result is that we have incredibly fragmented distros that only have the Linux kernel in common and operate very distinctly to one another, with no common executable or package format, very few shared APIs between them, guaranteed dependency hell and an overreliance on the terminal to make the system operable, while Windows has had double click exe file to run down for decades.

Yes of course everyone loves the double click on Logitech :shadedshu:

Huh? Think you’re in the wrong thread