Wednesday, December 20th 2023

AMD to Support AM5 Platform with New Products Till 2025 and Beyond

Dec 20th, 2023 23:48 Discuss (118 Comments)

AMD continues to release new Ryzen 5000 series processor models for the Socket AM4 platform to this day, with new processors expected to launch next month. That's over 6 years of longevity for the platform, considering that AMD has extended official Ryzen 5000 series support all the way back to its first line of AM4 motherboards based on the 300-series chipset. The company plans a similar longevity for Socket AM5. In an interview with Overclockers UK, AMD's client channel business head David McAfee said "I think that we certainly recognized that the longevity of the AM4 platforms was one of the biggest reasons that led to the success of Ryzen and as we think and as we think about the future, 2025 and beyond, that decision to move to a next-generation of socket is one that's going to be really thought through really really carefully. We know the impact that moving to a new socket brings and we want to stay on AM5 for as long as we possibly can. We are firmly committed to 2025 and beyond and we will see how long that promise lasts beyond 2025."

AMD Socket AM5 is designed to deliver up to 230 W of package power, and has a contemporary I/O that includes a dual-channel DDR5 memory interface (4x 40-bit sub-channels); and 28 PCIe Gen 5 lanes (x16 PEG, two x4 NVMe, and x4 chipset bus), besides the usual SoC connectivity. With the upcoming Ryzen 8000G "Phoenix" APUs, we could expect to see that the socket even wires out modern display I/O such as DisplayPort 2.1 with USB type-C, and the bandwidth for 12-bit HDR up to 68 billion colors. AMD debuted Socket AM5 with the "Zen 4" microarchitecture, with "Zen 5" expected to launch in 2024. It's conceivable that the company's 2025 client architecture, "Zen 6," could also see its desktop presence on AM5, given that DDR5 memory and PCIe Gen 5 will remain relevant till at least that time.

Sources: Overclockers UK (YouTube), Wccftech

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118 Comments on AMD to Support AM5 Platform with New Products Till 2025 and Beyond

#51

usiname

phanbueyI agree - @usiname is trying to justify the fact that zen 6 will need a new socket via ddr6 transition -- I agree with you, we will most likely still be using DDR5 then -- i'm just saying they will force a new socket while still using ddr5.

Do you not remember the first 6 months of AM5?

Add for inflation and that's your AM6 in Q4 of 2025.

"i'm just saying they will force a new socket while still using ddr5.", If Zen6 is on new socket, it will be because of transition to DDR6.
Nobody force you to upgrade to new platform on day 1. By the way $165 1 month after the release of AM5
www.techpowerup.com/review/asrock-b550-pg-riptide/16.html
My bad, this is B550. The B650 of this motherboard was 190

#52

persondb

This is both good and bad.

Good in the sense that it means AM5 will have a long life with support ahead.

Bad in the sense that it`s not going to receive any updates in the sense of wider memory bus or wider south bridge PCIe bus( Intel as an example has up to 8 PCIe lanes to south bridge while AMD is still doing 4).

Personally, I still wish for consumers CPU x86 to finally go into 256-bits busses and catch up with apple, but it seems like this will only be after Zen 6 for AMD.

#53

usiname

persondbThis is both good and bad.

Good in the sense that it means AM5 will have a long life with support ahead.

Bad in the sense that it`s not going to receive any updates in the sense of wider memory bus or wider south bridge PCIe bus( Intel as an example has up to 8 PCIe lanes to south bridge while AMD is still doing 4).

Personally, I still wish for consumers CPU x86 to finally go into 256-bits busses and catch up with apple, but it seems like this will only be after Zen 6 for AMD.

We won't see 4 channel memory on the consumers tier. If new DDR is released on every 6-7 years and double the bandwith, nor Intel, nor AMD will have a reason to switch to 4 channel. I am curious what will be the case with Strix Halo, new socket only for top tier APUs?

#54

pk67

phanbueyI agree - @usiname is trying to justify the fact that zen 6 will need a new socket via ddr6 transition -- I agree with you, we will most likely still be using DDR5 then -- i'm just saying they will force a new socket while still using ddr5.

Do you not remember the first 6 months of AM5?

Add for inflation and that's your AM6 in Q4 of 2025.

If I remember well I've spend $250+ for - my first - Am386DX40 mobo but it was 30 years ago ;) So $400 these days is not an extraordinary amount of money for good mobo.

We won't see 4 channel memory on the consumers tier. If new DDR is released on every 6-7 years and double the bandwith, nor Intel, nor AMD will have a reason to switch to 4 channel. I am curious what will be the case with Strix Halo, new socket only for top tier APUs?

I guess it would be LPDDR5x soldered memory - all channels or 2 channels at least.

#55

Eskimonster

Well my AM4 is gonna last 6-8 years, the last did 10 years. So longevity of sockets don´t realy matter to me.

#56

AnotherReader

persondbThis is both good and bad.

Good in the sense that it means AM5 will have a long life with support ahead.

Bad in the sense that it`s not going to receive any updates in the sense of wider memory bus or wider south bridge PCIe bus( Intel as an example has up to 8 PCIe lanes to south bridge while AMD is still doing 4).

Personally, I still wish for consumers CPU x86 to finally go into 256-bits busses and catch up with apple, but it seems like this will only be after Zen 6 for AMD.

It doesn't preclude changing the link between the CPU and the chipset to use PCIe 5 instead of PCIe 4. That would double the bandwidth between the CPU and the chipset.

#57

persondb

AnotherReaderIt doesn't preclude changing the link between the CPU and the chipset to use PCIe 5 instead of PCIe 4. That would double the bandwidth between the CPU and the chipset.

That is certainly true, but I don't think it's happening soon-ish, as the cost of implementing PCIe 5 seems to still be too high to implement it over all motherboards. It seems more likely that they will do it as a way to Segment the X770 chipset from the B750 ones.

usinameWe won't see 4 channel memory on the consumers tier. If new DDR is released on every 6-7 years and double the bandwith, nor Intel, nor AMD will have a reason to switch to 4 channel. I am curious what will be the case with Strix Halo, new socket only for top tier APUs?

I don't think DDR will keep up the pace like that, I think that DDR5 was already delayed. In addition, for the number of cores that AMD and Intel offer, I think that for a lot of stuff(non gaming), bandwidth impacts a lot. This is going to be greater as both AMD and Intel increase each core performance and if they add more cores(I don't think it's unconceivable that AMD could do a 16 core chiplet in the future).

It's also something to note as when PCIe 5 GPUs come around, they will have a bandwidth of ~63GB/s on each direction, which is very close to DDR5 bandwidth in a lot of systems.

Strix Halo is supposed to be for notebooks, I think, so it's likely that it will get a new notebook socket.

#58

Craptacular

HisDivineOrderRemember that time when AMD wasn't updating AM4 motherboards to run the latest CPU's because "the motherboards didn't have space for the new processors?" Now they're still adding more and more CPU's to the line as if space's no object! Haha, good times, good times.

Umm they drop CPUs support in the bios in order to add Zen 3 support.

#59

Wirko

#60

KaitouX

usinameIts not the same thing. The benefit of being able to upgrade is not just how long you can upgrade from the first to the last gen for your platform, but also what you get as improvement. As I said from 12900ks to 14900k you get ~10% improvement in ST and 20% in multi, Zen 5 will make 25% in single at least and 40% in multi. Double of what you get from Intel for 3 years

The 13900KS already achieved the same performance as the 14900K 6 months earlier, and Raptor Lake refresh was released almost exactly 2 years after Alder Lake.

From the 12900K to 13900KS/14900K the single core improved about 15% and 40% in multi in 1.5 / 2 years, which is reasonably close to what you're saying Zen 5 is going to be.

Sure the ST improvement isn't that big, but Raptor Lake was still a decent improvement over Alder lake, particularly when considering the memory and cache improvements. Also if you're getting the flagship I don't think you should be considering to upgrade within 1 year, which has been the standard Intel release cadence, and they usually only do 2 gens per chipset. So I would like to think that most people wouldn't buy a Intel flagship expecting to upgrade on the same motherboard.

#61

TumbleGeorge

AnotherReaderIf Zen 6 continues to use DDR5, it would have no reason to move to a new socket. There was a gap of seven years between the first x86 CPUs to support DDR4 and their first successors to support DDR5. If this cadence holds, then Zen 6 is unlikely to launch before the widespread availability of DDR6.

WoW you argue what AMD will do in future, with facts from Intel's history and gap between beginning with their HEDT series 5000X and ended with non HEDT 12000k.

#62

Gica

As usual, when singing hymns in honor of the longevity of a socket, I take a look at the system specifications.
And I don't see any B350 or X370. What are we talking about? How many kept the configuration from 2017 and what does it offer now? I don't see any heroic act even if you keep the $100-200 motherboard and invest $1000-2000 in processors over a period of 4-5-6 years or however many there are. For AMD it is just marketing and very few, extremely few and unpretentious have taken advantage of this longevity.

I see new releases of Zen 3. Shouldn't they have been released in the year of the release of this series of processors? Wasn't it more correct to offer processors below 7600 to be in step with the times?
Even if AMD keeps the AM4 line until 2024, meaning 7 years, for those who bought AM4 in 2022 or 2023, mathematically, there are 1-2 years.

#63

AnotherReader

TumbleGeorgeWoW you argue what AMD will do in future, with facts from Intel's history and gap between beginning with their HEDT series 5000X and ended with non HEDT 12000k.

Intel's CPUs were used as examples because they were the first ones to support DDR4 and DDR5. Those examples give an idea of how long we would have to wait for DDR6 support for consumer platforms. Before that, the DDR3to DDR4 transition also took seven years. Note that the first platform to support DDR3 was an Intel one: the P35 chipset for the LGA775 socket.

#64

A Computer Guy

GicaAs usual, when singing hymns in honor of the longevity of a socket, I take a look at the system specifications.
And I don't see any B350 or X370. What are we talking about? How many kept the configuration from 2017 and what does it offer now? I don't see any heroic act even if you keep the $100-200 motherboard and invest $1000-2000 in processors over a period of 4-5-6 years or however many there are. For AMD it is just marketing and very few, extremely few and unpretentious have taken advantage of this longevity.

I see new releases of Zen 3. Shouldn't they have been released in the year of the release of this series of processors? Wasn't it more correct to offer processors below 7600 to be in step with the times?
Even if AMD keeps the AM4 line until 2024, meaning 7 years, for those who bought AM4 in 2022 or 2023, mathematically, there are 1-2 years.

Most people don't upgrade 3 to 4 times on the same socket anyway let alone twice. AMD got a golden goose with X3D which I think made the long term socket strategy work because of the X3D's surprising effect on gaming and low power draw especially useful for 300 & 400 series boards with crappy VRM's. It wasn't that long ago AMD was going to tell 300 series board users they were out of luck with Zen3 before they reversed course and then also attempted to restrict Zen/Zen+ from B550/A520 boards perhaps to drive up sales of Zen3 chips.

The longer a socket plays out the less sense it makes to upgrade in socket unless financially constrained. Even then you still have to ask yourself am I going to even get a 30% uplift from an in socket upgrade compared to spending a little more for perhaps a 60% (or more) jump in performance with a new platform. This depends on how long you wait between real upgrades of course.

#65

Minus Infinity

ShrimpBrimeThat's where the chipset change comes in. New features may not require a new pinout. Even if Zen 6 where to be DDR6, could still use the same cpu socket. New features yay! Same socket, can use the cpu with older boards minis new features. But I don't see why they couldn't do all of that with the same pinout.

And? I'm alluding to the fact we have no information from AMD that Zen 6 is AM5 and that Zen 6 is 2025 is utter nonsense. People are just extrapolating that because Zen 5 is AM5 so will be Zen 6. It may very well be the case, but I wouldn't dare bet any money on that.

#66

ShrimpBrime

Minus InfinityAnd? I'm alluding to the fact we have no information from AMD that Zen 6 is AM5 and that Zen 6 is 2025 is utter nonsense. People are just extrapolating that because Zen 5 is AM5 so will be Zen 6. It may very well be the case, but I wouldn't dare bet any money on that.

Why not?
Ryzen AM4 had 3 different chipsets supporting all 4 generations of processors released.

That's 2017 to 2023. 5+ years worth on the same cpu socket.

For sure, nobody is asking for bets here. But shouldn't surprise to see a socket carried on for 5 years.

#67

mechtech

R0H1TWho's doing true 12bit HDR displays these days :wtf:

Not windows home desktop :)

#68

A Computer Guy

ShrimpBrimeWhy not?
Ryzen AM4 had 3 different chipsets supporting all 4 generations of processors released.

That's 2017 to 2023. 5+ years worth on the same cpu socket.

For sure, nobody is asking for bets here. But shouldn't surprise to see a socket carried on for 5 years.

Something I have been thinking about regarding socket longevity is that I think AMD users expectations vs. AMD's expectations of AM4's socket longevity may have been very different.
For example I was kind of expecting AM4 zen lineup be compatibile though all AM4 chipsets but I suspect AMD's expectation was more like treating socket longevity and compatibility like Intel.
In other words the consumer would need to pay attention to what gen chip was going to be paired with what chipset even though it was the same socket.
I was reminded of this after posting that old AM4 chipset compatibility chart a short while ago.

This makes me wonder that even if AM5 socket is around for awhile, will it significantly diverge from what we experienced with AM4?

#69

sLowEnd

A Computer GuySomething I have been thinking about regarding socket longevity is that I think AMD users expectations vs. AMD's expectations of AM4's socket longevity may have been very different.
For example I was kind of expecting AM4 zen lineup be compatibile though all AM4 chipsets but I suspect AMD's expectation was more like treating socket longevity and compatibility like Intel.
In other words the consumer would need to pay attention to what gen chip was going to be paired with what chipset even though it was the same socket.
I was reminded of this after posting that old AM4 chipset compatibility chart a short while ago.

This makes me wonder that even if AM5 socket is around for awhile, will it significantly diverge from what we experienced with AM4?

I hope I end up being wrong, but I fully expect the switch over from AGESA to openSIL to have some issues that will take some time to work out. IIRC the switch is supposed to happen in 2026. Not sure if it'll be AM6, or if they'll do it to AM5 too.

#70

LabRat 891

sLowEndI hope I end up being wrong, but I fully expect the switch over from AGESA to openSIL to have some issues that will take some time to work out. IIRC the switch is supposed to happen in 2026. Not sure if it'll be AM6, or if they'll do it to AM5 too.

Interesting.

More info:
community.amd.com/t5/business/empowering-the-industry-with-open-system-firmware-amd-opensil/ba-p/599644

www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-openSIL-Detailed

#71

Gica

A Computer GuyMost people don't upgrade 3 to 4 times on the same socket anyway let alone twice. AMD got a golden goose with X3D which I think made the long term socket strategy work because of the X3D's surprising effect on gaming and low power draw especially useful for 300 & 400 series boards with crappy VRM's. It wasn't that long ago AMD was going to tell 300 series board users they were out of luck with Zen3 before they reversed course and then also attempted to restrict Zen/Zen+ from B550/A520 boards perhaps to drive up sales of Zen3 chips.

The longer a socket plays out the less sense it makes to upgrade in socket unless financially constrained. Even then you still have to ask yourself am I going to even get a 30% uplift from an in socket upgrade compared to spending a little more for perhaps a 60% (or more) jump in performance with a new platform. This depends on how long you wait between real upgrades of course.

The problem is that they boasted about the longevity of the socket but did everything possible to make potential buyers migrate to a new motherboard. Zen 3 received an update for the 300 series more than a year after its launch (forced by motherboard manufacturers) and the processors below 5600X appeared even later.
I notice that they use the same tactic with Zen 4, there being nothing available on the market under 7600 for AM5 more than a year after the launch of the series. But "new" processors for AM4 are launched, burying a potential buyer under DDR4. Great deal for their earnings, I doubt for the buyer. For him, it was better if weaker and cheaper AM5 processors than 7600 were also available.

However, AMD supporters continue to hum hymns on this subject.

#72

TumbleGeorge

In fact, there were indeed problems. Not knowledgeable enough customers, for a long time bought old-timer motherboards with old bios in combination with new AM4 processors. Subsequently, they had to resort to the services of a repair shop, or borrow an older AM4 processor from a friend, so that they could start the computer and flash the BIOS with the new version, with which the motherboard would recognize and work with the new processor that was unsupported from the box.

#73

LabRat 891

TumbleGeorgeIn fact, there were indeed problems. Not knowledgeable enough customers, for a long time bought old-timer motherboards with old bios in combination with new AM4 processors. Subsequently, they had to resort to the services of a repair shop, or borrow an older AM4 processor from a friend, so that they could start the computer and flash the BIOS with the new version, with which the motherboard would recognize and work with the new processor that was unsupported from the box.

Yup.
My long time (fellow PC Enthusiast) friend did this. Even after I SPECIFICALLY advised him of and against it.

TBF, AMD did go out on a limb and directly-address this
www.pcbuildersclub.com/en/2019/07/boot-kit-amd-sends-again-a-rental-set-for-bios-update-for-ryzen-3000/

#74

AusWolf

A Computer GuyMost people don't upgrade 3 to 4 times on the same socket anyway let alone twice. AMD got a golden goose with X3D which I think made the long term socket strategy work because of the X3D's surprising effect on gaming and low power draw especially useful for 300 & 400 series boards with crappy VRM's. It wasn't that long ago AMD was going to tell 300 series board users they were out of luck with Zen3 before they reversed course and then also attempted to restrict Zen/Zen+ from B550/A520 boards perhaps to drive up sales of Zen3 chips.

The longer a socket plays out the less sense it makes to upgrade in socket unless financially constrained. Even then you still have to ask yourself am I going to even get a 30% uplift from an in socket upgrade compared to spending a little more for perhaps a 60% (or more) jump in performance with a new platform. This depends on how long you wait between real upgrades of course.

The only way I see it making sense is if you buy the first generation CPU in a socket, then upgrade to the last gen, skip the next socket entirely, and then buy the first gen of the one after, and so on.

So you could have bought Zen 1 or 1+, then Zen 3 (X3D or 16-core), skip AM5, and buy Zen 6 or 7 or whatever starts AM6.

#75

Wirko

TumbleGeorgeIn fact, there were indeed problems. Not knowledgeable enough customers, for a long time bought old-timer motherboards with old bios in combination with new AM4 processors. Subsequently, they had to resort to the services of a repair shop, or borrow an older AM4 processor from a friend, so that they could start the computer and flash the BIOS with the new version, with which the motherboard would recognize and work with the new processor that was unsupported from the box.

This is something AMD really should address and solve once and for all, and maybe the transition to openSIL could be the right opportunity. Every CPU/APU should be functional on every mobo out of the box, even if it works at 800 MHz and 35 W, to allow firmware updates and some amount of troubleshooting in BIOS and in the OS.

AusWolfThe only way I see it making sense is if you buy the first generation CPU in a socket, then upgrade to the last gen, skip the next socket entirely, and then buy the first gen of the one after, and so on.

So you could have bought Zen 1 or 1+, then Zen 3 (X3D or 16-core), skip AM5, and buy Zen 6 or 7 or whatever starts AM6.

The i7-7700K price remains surprisingly high on the used market, which to me is an indication that many people do exactly that.

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AMD to Support AM5 Platform with New Products Till 2025 and Beyond

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