Wednesday, December 20th 2023

AMD to Support AM5 Platform with New Products Till 2025 and Beyond

by
btarunr
 Discuss (118 Comments)
AMD continues to release new Ryzen 5000 series processor models for the Socket AM4 platform to this day, with new processors expected to launch next month. That's over 6 years of longevity for the platform, considering that AMD has extended official Ryzen 5000 series support all the way back to its first line of AM4 motherboards based on the 300-series chipset. The company plans a similar longevity for Socket AM5. In an interview with Overclockers UK, AMD's client channel business head David McAfee said "I think that we certainly recognized that the longevity of the AM4 platforms was one of the biggest reasons that led to the success of Ryzen and as we think and as we think about the future, 2025 and beyond, that decision to move to a next-generation of socket is one that's going to be really thought through really really carefully. We know the impact that moving to a new socket brings and we want to stay on AM5 for as long as we possibly can. We are firmly committed to 2025 and beyond and we will see how long that promise lasts beyond 2025."

AMD Socket AM5 is designed to deliver up to 230 W of package power, and has a contemporary I/O that includes a dual-channel DDR5 memory interface (4x 40-bit sub-channels); and 28 PCIe Gen 5 lanes (x16 PEG, two x4 NVMe, and x4 chipset bus), besides the usual SoC connectivity. With the upcoming Ryzen 8000G "Phoenix" APUs, we could expect to see that the socket even wires out modern display I/O such as DisplayPort 2.1 with USB type-C, and the bandwidth for 12-bit HDR up to 68 billion colors. AMD debuted Socket AM5 with the "Zen 4" microarchitecture, with "Zen 5" expected to launch in 2024. It's conceivable that the company's 2025 client architecture, "Zen 6," could also see its desktop presence on AM5, given that DDR5 memory and PCIe Gen 5 will remain relevant till at least that time.
Sources: Overclockers UK (YouTube), Wccftech

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118 Comments on AMD to Support AM5 Platform with New Products Till 2025 and Beyond

#26
stimpy88
What would the point of a new platform be without a change in PCiE version, supporting quad channel memory, which AMD desperately need if they are going higher than 16 cores on the desktop, or a change to DDR6? Those three are the only plausible reasons for making people update motherboards, when the SOC is on the CPU.

Any other changes would simply be new PCB layout of the AM5 platform for higher DDR5 speeds (also, something that AMD desperately needs), random design bugfixes, better WiFi/ethernet etc.
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#27
theouto
Oh hey look, it's the reason why I went with AMD in the first place! Well, one of the reasons. Pretty cool to see that I did indeed make the right choice regarding the longevity of the platform.
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#28
AusWolf
kondaminAnd here I am thinking about getting a new am5 board as this one doesn't allow me to enable eco mode
How so? Do you see a TDP switch in the BIOS? It's not labelled as "ECO mode" on every board.
stimpy88higher DDR5 speeds (also, something that AMD desperately needs)
I disagree. Based on my AM5 adventures so far (7700X and 7800X3D), RAM speed brings very minimal performance advantage, basically zero with X3D.

With that said, I'm very curious about the new Phoenix APUs, and it'll be interesting to see how RAM speed affects their iGPU performance.
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#29
usiname
kondaminAnd here I am thinking about getting a new am5 board as this one doesn't allow me to enable eco mode
What is yout motherboard
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#30
pk67
AusWolfI disagree. Based on my AM5 adventures so far (7700X and 7800X3D), RAM speed brings very minimal performance advantage, basically zero with X3D.

With that said, I'm very curious about the new Phoenix APUs, and it'll be interesting to see how RAM speed affects their iGPU performance.
It would be fun to see APU with 8 GB HBM 3 or 16 GB GDDR7 integrated. There is 676 mm2 area under heatsink to contain it all at least.
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#31
GerKNG
i'll come back to AM5 as soon as they confirm that Zen 6 will be on AM5 and available on every existing AM5 motherboard.
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#32
Parn
HisDivineOrderRemember that time when AMD wasn't updating AM4 motherboards to run the latest CPU's because "the motherboards didn't have space for the new processors?" Now they're still adding more and more CPU's to the line as if space's no object! Haha, good times, good times.
I believe this "not enough space" issue was down to some mobo manufacturers using smaller size BIOS chips (e.g. Gigabytes). My Gigabytes B450 mobo both had only an 128Mbit BIOS chip. To have support for Zen 3 it had to lose the support for Zen+. The later mobos from them including my X570S had an updated 256Mbit BIOS chip and no longer has that limitation.
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#33
Nostras
A Computer GuyI'm a bit confused. Don't all AM5 chips include an iGPU?
Why are they (8000X's & 8000G's) not all considered APU's?
Why aren't 8000G's called Ultra APU's? (seems like a missed marketing opportunity by AMD)
No, 7500F exists.
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#34
A Computer Guy
kondaminAnd here I am thinking about getting a new am5 board as this one doesn't allow me to enable eco mode
If you have access to PBO in the UEFI/BIOS you can't you just reduce PPT for the same or similar effect (just more fine grained)?
R0H1TTrue but that's only on a technicality, how do you explain B550 boards not supporting zen or zen+ chips? I wanted to move my 2700 to a cheaper board & still retain the ability to upgade it later ~ there were zero options except x570 at the time early last year, the xx4x boards were mostly out of stock/production here!
It's like B550 was the one trick AMD pulled that consumers weren't able to reverse and they got away with it.
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#35
Aretak
AusWolfWhat is "till 2025 and beyond"? Is it until 2025 or beyond 2025 now? You can't have it both ways. :wtf:
I mean, it's pretty obvious what it means if you actually read the article. They're guaranteeing that new CPUs will be on AM5 until 2025, but may continue on beyond that depending on the circumstances. Maybe Zen 7 or whatever they currently plan to move to AM6 with will be delayed or something, and they'll end up releasing a Zen 6+ generation on AM5 to fill the gap. Just as Intel were forced kicking and screaming into releasing a third generation of CPUs on the same socket due to desktop Meteor Lake being a disaster.
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#36
phanbuey
That's pretty non-committal

AM5 only release in q4 2022 so "'till 2025" is 2 years... if we add " and beyond" - 3 years? otherwise they would have just said "till 2026". So basically Zen 5 might be the last AM5 is the hint here.

3 years on a socket isn't a huge deal. LGA1700 released in q4 2021 and will be sunset in 2024 when arrow lake releases in q4 (maybe?). And intel changes sockets unnecessarily fast.
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#37
KaitouX
Important to remember that new CPUs doesn't necessarily means new architecture, like we saw with AM4 when AMD said almost the exact same thing some time after Zen 3. So we could very well see only Zen5 variants being released on AM5 in 2025, with Zen 6 being on a new platform.
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#38
usiname
phanbueyThat's pretty non-committal

AM5 only release in q4 2022 so "'till 2025" is 2 years... if we add " and beyond" - 3 years?

3 years on a really socket isn't a huge deal. LGA1700 released in q4 2021 and will be sunset in 2024 when arrow lake releases in q4 (maybe?).
Arrow lake is LGA 1851, so 2 years with the 12900ks ~9% slower in single thread than 14900k and 20% in multi. Not really enought improvement to upgrade if you already have 12900ks the fastest alder lake
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#39
phanbuey
KaitouXImportant to remember that new CPUs doesn't necessarily means new architecture, like we saw with AM4 when AMD said almost the exact same thing some time after Zen 3. So we could very well see only Zen5 variants being released on AM5 in 2025, with Zen 6 being on a new platform.
Q3-Q4 of 2024 is zen 5 launch... they launch new architectures every 18-24 months... so this makes sense. Zen 6 isn't launching in 2025 unless they double their release cadence.
usinameArrow lake is LGA 1851, so 2 years with the 12900ks ~10% slower in single thread than 14900k and 25% in multi. Not really enought improvement to upgrade if you already have 12900ks the faster alder lake
Alder lake released in Q4 of 2021.... so you have 1 year > Q4 of 2022, 2 years > Q4 of 2023, 3 years > Q4 of 2024... Also you're thinking of meteor lake, arrow lake leaks all show 30-40% ipc lift. Granted it's an exception, intel refreshes every 2 gens (way too fast), but what this article is saying, if you think about it... is "AM5 will last up to 2 years and beyond"

They released zen 4 on it, 2 years later they will release Zen 5... zen 6 is another 18-24months past that... it's basically hinting no zen 6 on am5.
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#40
usiname
phanbueyAlder lake released in Q4 of 2021.... so you have 1 year > Q4 of 2022, 2 years > Q4 of 2023, 3 years > Q4 of 2024... Also you're thinking of meteor lake, arrow lake leaks all show 30-40% ipc lift. Granted it's an exception, intel refreshes every 2 gens (way too fast), but what this article is saying, if you think about it... is "AM5 will last up to 2 years and beyond"

They released zen 4 on it, 2 years later they will release Zen 5... zen 6 is another 18-24months past that... it's basically hinting no zen 6 on am5.
Most likely zen 6 is on new socket yes, the rest... What are you talking about, stop dreaming for arrow lake on LGA 1700 with 40% ipc lift, how clueless you must be to believe in this? Its already confimed, Arrow Lake is on LGA1851 and we saw the meteor lake with the negative IPC and the new leaks point at ~5% IPC improvement for Arrow Lake, much more likely than the old candy dreams
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#41
phanbuey
usinameMost likely zen 6 is on new socket yes, the rest... What are you talking about, stop dreaming for arrow lake on LGA 1700 with 40% ipc lift, how clueless you must be to believe in this?
i didn't say anything about arrow lake on 1700. 1700 lasted 3 years before getting replaced.

Also if zen 6 is on new socket... then you replaced your socket after 2 gens... basically what intel does is the point im trying to make.
usiname~5% IPC improvement for Arrow Lake, much more likely than the old candy dreams
Not impossible but unlikely
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#42
usiname
phanbueyi didn't say anything about arrow lake on 1700. 1700 lasted 3 years before getting replaced.

Also if zen 6 is on new socket... then you replaced your socket after 2 gens... basically what intel does is the point im trying to make.

Not impossible but unlikely
Its not the same thing. The benefit of being able to upgrade is not just how long you can upgrade from the first to the last gen for your platform, but also what you get as improvement. As I said from 12900ks to 14900k you get ~10% improvement in ST and 20% in multi, Zen 5 will make 25% in single at least and 40% in multi. Double of what you get from Intel for 3 years
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#43
phanbuey
usinameIts not the same thing. The benefit of being able to upgrade is not just how long you can upgrade from the first to the last gen for your platform, but also what you get as improvement. As I said from 12900ks to 14900k you get ~10% improvement in ST and 20% in multi, Zen 5 will make 25% in single at least and 40% in multi. Double of what you get from Intel for 3 years
It's still 2 generations... Doesn't matter if they're good or bad, they're on a 2 gen cycle now. It's not an AMD vs intel thing, it's a - prepare to be separated from your money thing. They're issuing the CYA now.
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#44
pk67
Sooner or later we will see advanced packaging in commercial CPUs and APUs. Then the resources available through the socket will be of secondary importance. Everything that is most efficient - such as fast and capacious memories - will be soldered directly.
Introducing new types of sockets only postpones what is already inevitable. I'm more interested in AMD's plans to implement advanced integration in consumer hardware than in vague claims about the lifespan of the AM5 socket.
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#45
usiname
phanbueyIt's still 2 generations... Doesn't matter if they're good or bad, they're on a 2 gen cycle now. It's not an AMD vs intel thing, it's a - prepare to be separated from your money thing. They're basically issuing the CYA now.
2 gens on single socket that bring more than 4 gens and 2 sockets from intel. DDR6 will be released in 2026 so they actually don't have a choice, because if they skip it, then they will be on DDR6 in 2028, 2 years later. With Zen4 it was 1 year later after DDR5.
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#46
phanbuey
usiname2 gens on single socket that bring more than 4 gens and 2 sockets from intel. DDR6 will be released in 2026 so they actually don't have a choice, because if they skip it, then they will be on DDR6 in 2028, 2 years later. With Zen4 it was 1 year later after DDR5.
However you want to justify/mourn it is fine. AMD is now going to become intel - Zen 5 will cost $$$ and x3d will be dragged out to mid to late 2025 ("beyond"). Then you will need a new socket and $400 board for zen 6.

Here's the rule of tech... Whenever the engineers turn things around and come up with great tech, the suits step in and turn it into a machine to juice you like a lemon. AMD had great engineers and were playing catch up -- which was great for consumers. Intel and AMD competing has been awesome for consumers (7800x3d, 12600k at $155 o_O).

The further AMD gets ahead, the less that happens and the more you're gonna get squeezed. If you're old enough to remember the Athlon 64 FX series, you know what happens next. Same as Sandy Bridge for intel.
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#47
usiname
phanbueyHowever you want to justify/mourn it is fine. AMD is now going to become intel - Zen 5 will cost $$$ and x3d will be dragged out to mid to late 2025 ("beyond"). Then you will need a new socket and $400 board for zen 6.
Its not fine, 4 years live for the socket versus 5 for AM4, still much better than Intel with their joke upgrades. AM5 will be replaced because of DDR6 release, but don't expect Intel to release more than 2 "generatrions" on LGA1851, 14900k was released only because meteor lake was slower than their 13th gen so in the last moment they gave you another refresh for LGA1700, ~4% faster refresh, enjoy

Who in his right mind spend $400 on motherboard? If you spend so much for motherboard which in the best will bring you 2-3% improvement, you probably don't have problem to upgrade every year. Same for the $400 32GB RAM kits
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#48
AnotherReader
phanbueyHowever you want to justify/mourn it is fine. AMD is now going to become intel - Zen 5 will cost $$$ and x3d will be dragged out to mid to late 2025 ("beyond"). Then you will need a new socket and $400 board for zen 6.

Here's the rule of tech... Whenever the engineers turn things around and come up with great tech, the suits step in and turn it into a machine to juice you like a lemon. AMD had great engineers and were playing catch up -- which was great for consumers. Intel and AMD competing has been awesome for consumers (7800x3d, 12600k at $155 o_O).

The further AMD gets ahead, the less that happens and the more you're gonna get squeezed. If you're old enough to remember the Athlon 64 FX series, you know what happens next. Same as Sandy Bridge for intel.
If Zen 6 continues to use DDR5, it would have no reason to move to a new socket. There was a gap of seven years between the first x86 CPUs to support DDR4 and their first successors to support DDR5. If this cadence holds, then Zen 6 is unlikely to launch before the widespread availability of DDR6.
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#49
phanbuey
AnotherReaderIf Zen 6 continues to use DDR5, it would have no reason to move to a new socket. There was a gap of seven years between the first x86 CPUs to support DDR4 and their first successors to support DDR5. If this cadence holds, then Zen 6 is unlikely to launch before the widespread availability of DDR6.
I agree - @usiname is trying to justify the fact that zen 6 will need a new socket via ddr6 transition -- I agree with you, we will most likely still be using DDR5 then -- i'm just saying they will force a new socket while still using ddr5.
usinameWho in his right mind spend $400 on motherboard? If you spend so much for motherboard which in the best will bring you 2-3% improvement, you probably don't have problem to upgrade every year. Same for the $400 32GB RAM kits
Do you not remember the first 6 months of AM5?

Add for inflation and that's your AM6 in Q4 of 2025.
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#50
AnotherReader
phanbueyI agree - @usiname is trying to justify the fact that zen 6 will need a new socket via ddr6 transition -- I agree with you, we will most likely still be using DDR5 then -- i'm just saying they will force a new socket while still using ddr5.


Do you not remember the first 6 months of AM5?

Add for inflation and that's your AM6 in Q4 of 2025.
If they move to a new socket without a new DRAM standard, then they would lose a lot of the goodwill they have accumulated with customers who prefer them to Intel because of the greater number of CPU generations on one socket.
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