Friday, July 5th 2024

Intel Arrow Lake CPU Refresh May Include Upgraded NPU, Increasing Die Size

by
Nomad76
 Discuss (17 Comments)
Intel's upcoming Arrow Lake "S" Desktop and "HX" laptop CPUs are reported to launch without dedicated NPU hardware. NPUs will be limited to Arrow Lake-H/U and Lunar Lake chips, with Core Ultra 200V chips offering up to 48 TOPS of AI performance. Currently, AMD is the only manufacturer offering desktop chips with dedicated NPUs in their Ryzen 8000G "Hawk Point" series for the AM5 platform. However, according to Jaykihn, an active Intel-related leaker, Intel may be planning to incorporate NPUs in future Arrow Lake-S and Arrow Lake-HX refreshes.

The potential refresh could include an NPU within the SOC tile, possibly increasing the die size by 2.8 mm compared to current Arrow Lake designs. The package size is expected to remain unchanged, maintaining socket compatibility, however, motherboard manufacturers would need to enable Fast Voltage Mode (FVM) on VccSA rails to support the NPU functionality. While it's early to discuss an Arrow Lake refresh before the initial launch, this development could impact Intel's roadmap and the "AI PC" market segment. Also, it could have possible implications for the release schedule of future architectures like Panther Lake.
Sources: WccfTech, Jaykihn

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17 Comments on Intel Arrow Lake CPU Refresh May Include Upgraded NPU, Increasing Die Size

#1
bug
Good. So all those who voted they wouldn't pay more for AI-enabled hardware in the other thread will buy these in droves then. /s

Nevermind, I fell for the clickbait. There will be an NPU, the refresh may replace NPU3 with NPU4. Thanks TPU, the Internet lacks good clickbait sources. /s
Posted on Reply
#2
N/A
the point is that ARL-S doesn't have any NPU at all. that's the meteor lake in the image that has NPU3, arrow lake desktop has none of that.
So if we want insanely hard AI and NPC's in the games or whatever we have to wait for the refresh.
Posted on Reply
#3
P4-630
Ok, I removed my post before but I'll post it again:
Do we need this for general office use or gaming?...
Posted on Reply
#4
bug
N/Athe point is that ARL-S doesn't have any NPU at all. that's the meteor lake in the image that has NPU3, arrow lake desktop has none of that.
So if we want insanely hard AI and NPC's in the games or whatever we have to wait for the refresh.
That's what the article claims, but the last linked picture actually says "Arrow Lake refresh, if carried out, will see an upgraded NPU...".
P4-630Ok, I removed my post before but I'll post it again:
Do we need this for general office use or gaming?...
As usual, it's going to be a bit of a chicken-and-egg at first.
Posted on Reply
#5
Dragokar
Well, it's just the semi useful AI-Train again. Some things can be done easier, i.e., searching for stuff, but I mostly see that used by people who don't care about validation of what they “searched”.
Posted on Reply
#6
Vayra86
P4-630Ok, I removed my post before but I'll post it again:
Do we need this for general office use or gaming?...
I didn't need it until today, I won't tomorrow.
Posted on Reply
#7
bonehead123
P4-630Do we need this for general office use or gaming?..
We don't need it at all, but the AI needz you, so it can use you, consume you, use you again, manipulate you, and then, in less than a nanosecond, delete you from your entire, outdated, pitiful & sorry-assed existence, hahahahaha :D
Posted on Reply
#8
Minus Infinity
bonehead123We don't need it at all, but the AI needz you, so it can use you, consume you, use you again, manipulate you, and then, in less than a nanosecond, delete you from your entire, outdated, pitiful & sorry-assed existence, hahahahaha :D
Well there are actually good uses for the NPU, not just utter BS like copilot or generative fill. Photo/vide processing is one area that will benefit greatly form NPU acceleration. Already Topaz Labs support NPU if you have one. It has greatly sped up processing times on Apple M4 equipped devices.
Posted on Reply
#9
Dr. Dro
Minus InfinityWell there are actually good uses for the NPU, not just utter BS like copilot or generative fill. Photo/vide processing is one area that will benefit greatly form NPU acceleration. Already Topaz Labs support NPU if you have one. It has greatly sped up processing times on Apple M4 equipped devices.
I question the usefulness of an NPU on a desktop that has access to AVX-VNNI and a performant GPU available. I'm sure it's great but I'm also unsure it's a deal breaker not to have it.
Posted on Reply
#10
P4-630
Dr. DroI'm sure it's great but I'm also unsure it's a deal breaker not to have it.
The people that are going with Arrow Lake would then be able to upgrade the CPU anyway if it becomes very useful.
Posted on Reply
#11
JKIN
N/Athe point is that ARL-S doesn't have any NPU at all. that's the meteor lake in the image that has NPU3, arrow lake desktop has none of that.
So if we want insanely hard AI and NPC's in the games or whatever we have to wait for the refresh.
ARL-S non-refresh will have an NPU.
Posted on Reply
#12
JustBenching
Dr. DroI question the usefulness of an NPU on a desktop that has access to AVX-VNNI and a performant GPU available. I'm sure it's great but I'm also unsure it's a deal breaker not to have it.
Well they can't remove it from the desktop chips, since both laptops and desktop are using the same die, no?

Desktops have become an afterthought for the both AMD and Intel, mobile and servers is where it's at.
Posted on Reply
#13
Minus Infinity
So somehow between when Arrow Lake launches in about 4-5 months and Panther Lake appearing in 2025 we can fit in a refresh of Arrow lake say 6-9 months later.

I call BS or are they really going to have Arrow Lake R and Panther Lake selling together!
Posted on Reply
#14
bug
Minus InfinitySo somehow between when Arrow Lake launches in about 4-5 months and Panther Lake appearing in 2025 we can fit in a refresh of Arrow lake say 6-9 months later.

I call BS or are they really going to have Arrow Lake R and Panther Lake selling together!
This could be a backup plan, in case Panther Lake get hit by delays. It's all just a bunch of speculations, nothing worth any attention imho.
Posted on Reply
#15
MonteCristo
Someone must finally acknowledge the elephant in the room: Intel's Arrow Lake (and possibly the next arch) might have the same bug like 13 and 14 gen!!!!!
Posted on Reply
#16
Caring1
MonteCristoSomeone must finally acknowledge the elephant in the room: Intel's Arrow Lake (and possibly the next arch) might have the same bug like 13 and 14 gen!!!!!
It's not a bug.
Posted on Reply
#17
MonteCristo
The point of my message is that benchmarks already leaked, show slower multi-core results (Hyperthreading will be disabled) and that shows that you cannot sell a 350-400W CPU without exotic cooling or new techniques to mitigate the high voltage consequences that affect silicon. The truth is that Intel will have to shrink very much after this fiasco and It is up-to AMD now to take the wheel of innovation.
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