erockerOh well, I'm sure there will be some tech sites that will offer the drivers for download anyways.

Cease and Desists incoming... lol. Not joking, I predict this will happen eventually. Nvidia is beyond arrogant.

Nvidia are patent trolls (not for money, but unethical business), so clearly they like frivolous lawsuits.

FordGT90ConceptAnything that's not required to make the device function is bloatware. GeForce Experience and Gaming Evolved both check that box. Arguable, CCC and the NVIDIA Control Panel also do but you'd have to go back over a decade to find drivers that didn't use them (they embedded advanced display options under Display Properties -> Advanced, coincidentally, where they belong). Graphics drivers, by themselves, are no more than 50 MiB. Both AMD and NVIDIA driver packages now have north of 200 MiB worth of bloat and they seem quick to add even more. Are these things users even requested in the first place?

Maybe you should send your CV off and show them how it's done. It's clear you're wasted here at TPU moaning about this and that.

KatanaiWell I for one have no use for Shadowplay or anything else this POS software offers. So why is it forced on me? My thinking is: regardless of how much RAM it uses a program that runs in the background and doesn't do anything I really need can give me only one thing: a blue screen.

Which blue screens has GFE caused? Nvidia has had a run until lately of 6months of crappy drivers, but GFE has never caused any crashes or blue screens to me. Nor have I ever read of any.

Also, why are so many AMD users so mad about this? There's a fair number in both these threada.

rtwjunkieWhich blue screens has GFE caused?

You don't seem to understand plain english. Let me try to explain it again: a program, any program that runs, might at one point cause a blue screen. If a program is running non stop and doesn't do anything for me the only thing it could ever do to affect me is a blue screen. So why have it run?

rtwjunkieAlso, why are so many AMD users so mad about this? There's a fair number in both these threada.

I wouldn't say I'm mad; I would say NVIDIA has given more than enough reasons not to even consider their hardware and 100% of those revolve around software (be it GFE or CUDA accelerated APIs like HairWorks and PhysX).

XzibitThat's about 50% of people on the Steam Survey that have 4GB or less.

44.08% to be exact.
53.29% of users use Nvidia GPUs

That's a theoretical maximum of 23.6% affected before you factor out Nvidia cards on legacy support (DX9 and lower make up 2.5% of all GPUs on the survey), and making the assumption that system RAM doesn't scale with GPU market segment - which is pretty unlikely given that many popular cards featured in the survey ranging from low end 740M to mid-bracket GTX 860M usually come paired with laptops with 8GB, 12GB, or 16GB of RAM, and performance desktop cards are also unlikely to be residing in systems with 4GB (or less) of RAM.

@Katanai I understand English fine, it's my specialty. You don't understand how illogical you sound.

By your logic, you should have only Windows running, nothing, and I mean nothing else.

You're talking about what COULD happen. You might get run over crossing the street too. Your answer is akin to staying home because it "might" happen.

Silly, isn't it?

rtwjunkie@Katanai
By your logic, you should have only Windows running, nothing, and I mean nothing else.

Yes and that's what I have running every time I open my PC. If I want something else to run I open it.

KatanaiYes and that's what I have running every time I open my PC. If I want something else to run I open it.

But why? It might bluescreen your PC! Meanwhile, notice I said specifically Nothing Open. That means no protection of any kind.

rtwjunkieBy your logic, you should have only Windows running, nothing, and I mean nothing else.

I generally agree with that statement. If it is not something you need right now, it shouldn't be running. Case in point: I never liked the idea of having to run Steam to run a Steam title. Someone posted a picture of all of the services and applications NVIDIA drivers install these days (without opting out). The list is lengthy and several of them pose potentially pretty big security threats because they leave network ports open. Steam is doing more and more of that lately as well. These are nothing I'm in favor of. These are things that should be disabled by default. These are things that users should have more control over. Microsoft is guilty of much the same with Windows 10. Instead of security getting tighter it seems to be systemically getting weaker.

FordGT90ConceptI wouldn't say I'm mad; I would say NVIDIA has given more than enough reasons not to even consider their hardware and 100% of those revolve around software (be it GFE or CUDA accelerated APIs like HairWorks and PhysX).

The only problem with that is the only other discrete GPU vendor also has it's fair share of software related issues. Someone else could possibly lay out a similar list to rule out their consideration. Are you suggesting a discrete card boycott ?

FordGT90ConceptI generally agree with that statement. If it is not something you need right now, it shouldn't be running. Case in point: I never liked the idea of having to run Steam to run a Steam title. Someone posted a picture of all of the services and applications NVIDIA drivers install these days (without opting out). The list is lengthy and several of them pose potentially pretty big security threats because they leave network ports open. Steam is doing more and more of that lately as well. These are nothing I'm in favor of. These are things that should be disabled by default.

Should be that aren't. Likewise another vendor attempts to slide Gaming Evolved past the unwary by making it the default option, and Raptr doesn't have a spotless security record either (funny how an actual security breach doesn't warrant anywhere close to the posting here ). To be effective, the opposition needs to be consistent and widespread

FordGT90ConceptThese are things that users should have more control over. Microsoft is guilty of much the same with Windows 10. Instead of security getting tighter it seems to be systemically getting weaker.

Undoubtedly, but I'm guessing you're preaching to the converted. The vast majority of users I'm guessing don't bother with custom downloads (if they download driver updates at all unless prompted), and the hard fact is that most computer users are pretty lazy*. I'd also venture that most people that do customize their install find a way to tailor it more to their satisfaction. I generally don't have too many problems circumventing the easy option - it just becomes a sliding scale of effort versus result on a case by case basis. Not much in the way of commercial software doesn't have a workaround, whether it be third-party software to unlock overclock limits, registry hacks, unpack/repack tools and the like. I'm not particularly enamored by having to take software I don't want, so if it becomes more invasive than beneficial (or at least benign) and I can't live with it or modify it, then I'll make other arrangements.

* People that can't be bothered doing basic crap like emptying (let alone resizing) the recycle bin, defragging, browser/file manager cache cleaning, not storing passwords on their machine etc etc. i.e. the stuff that leads to about 90% of the issues I end up having to rectify. Is it any wonder we have software and hardware vendors playing fast and loose with their customer base? As Joseph de Maistre said: "Every nation gets the government it deserves".

this makes me glad i'm with the red team.

HumanSmokeThe only problem with that is the only other discrete GPU vendor also has it's fair share of software related issues. Someone else could possibly lay out a similar list to rule out their consideration. Are you suggesting a discrete card boycott ?

I'm a gamer so that's impossible. :p Off the top of my head, I can't recall any "software related issues."

I see you cite Gaming Evolved after that as an example. I've never used it, see no reason to use it, and never intend to use it. If AMD pulled a stunt like GFE (requiring Gaming Evolved to get the latest drivers), I would say much the same about AMD that I'm saying now about NVIDIA. In that context, boycott seems practical because the only two options out there want to ram bloatware down our throats.

FordGT90ConceptGeForce Experience downloads Quadro drivers too. The only difference is other features in GeForce Experience are disabled when a GeForce card isn't detected.

NVIDIA, thusly, could adapt the same policy with Quadro and Tesla they have with GeForce (version on website is not current; GeForce Experience has to be used to get the latest version).

Why on earth would anyone install GE in an enterprise environment, and who would install the latest drivers for professional use anyways?

IkarugaWhy on earth would anyone install GE in an enterprise a consumer environment, and who would wouldn't install the latest drivers for professional use anyways?

FTFY ;)

FordGT90ConceptFTFY ;)

are you serious? I test a simple printer driver update for weeks on the focus machines before I forward it to the rest of users, let alone how long I test a new video driver. Installing 0 day drivers are for enthusiast and gamers, you don't do such thing when you mean business.

FordGT90ConceptOff the top of my head, I can't recall any "software related issues."

[OT]
My Radeon use lately has been intermittent at best lately, but I distinctly remember having a number of frustrating issues ranging from the PowerPlay voltage (BIOS) issue ( I've owned five HD 5850's - not including 3 RMA's, plus HD 5770's, and a HD 5970 from the Evergreen series), laptop Enduro/hybrid crossfire, the on-again, off-again giant mouse cursor, memory leaks, TDR's, general Crossfire issues including clocks locking up/down, intermittent USB and sound over HDMI conflicts and the like. I've had (or had to deal with) many driver issues from both Nvidia and AMD - not to mention a host of sound card vendors, so I'd never say any are above reproach
[/OT]

Ikarugaare you serious? I test a simple printer driver update for weeks on the focus machines before I forward it to the rest of users, let alone how long I test a new video driver. Installing 0 day drivers are for enthusiast and gamers, you don't do such thing when you mean business.

I tend to agree. Drivers, of all kinds, should be left to the user to decide. If a professional (not a domain controlled environment, mind you) wants to update to the latest drivers then he/she should be able to. If he/she does not, then he/she ought to be able to opt out.

In my opinion, we should be talking about fourseparate things:
1) the graphics driver (inf, sys, etc.)
2) an automatic driver updater (could be a light weight application that delays start to check for new updates)
3) AMD CCC & NVIDIA Control Panel
4) AMD Gaming Evolved & NVIDIA GeForce Experience.

The first is required and is reasonable for Windows Update to fetch this when it using Microsoft's standard VGA driver, the second should be opt-out because most people will want to keep drivers current, the third should be opt-in because most of the important features can be handled by the operating system itself (e.g. multi-monitor support), and the fourth should be a complete separate installer (not unlike PhysX) so only people that want it will get it.

HumanSmoke[OT]
My Radeon use lately has been intermittent at best lately, but I distinctly remember having a number of frustrating issues ranging from the PowerPlay voltage (BIOS) issue ( I've owned five HD 5850's - not including 3 RMA's, plus HD 5770's, and a HD 5970 from the Evergreen series), laptop Enduro/hybrid crossfire, the on-again, off-again giant mouse cursor, memory leaks, TDR's, general Crossfire issues including clocks locking up/down, intermittent USB and sound over HDMI conflicts and the like. I've had (or had to deal with) many driver issues from both Nvidia and AMD - not to mention a host of sound card vendors, so I'd never say any are above reproach
[/OT]

You must be one unlucky bastard. :laugh:

jigar2speedIs it that Nvidia is now feeling the heat of WHQL and wants the people to pay for drivers via adverts ???

ZeDestructorErr.. wat? GFE is just a neat little program that downloads recommended game settings (based on your GPU config) and lets you apply them, and a neat little GPU-powered game recorder and streaming utility. No ads whatsoever, unless you consider it's support for twitch/youtube streaming to be an ad for twitch/youtube....

RecusStill trying to draw Nvidia in bad light? Zero ads in GE.

Where did i say that the adverts would be in the apps or apps only ?? They are asking you for your email address, they can spam you about new products, games and new marketing tie-ups - that move alone can generate money for them. Also, i am pretty sure they have something more in mind, here's hoping we all find out soon. :)

newtekie1I wouldn't count on that being possible after this. The drivers available on other sites are sourced from the nVidia downloads. If nVidia isn't offering them for download anymore, then the other sites won't have them either.

The Geforce experience still has to get the installers from SOMEWHERE. They will be found, I'm betting. It just won't be officially listed.

Still, count me pissed. I don't want another piece of bloatware on my PC. I don't use a single thing in it, so it's not going on.

rtwjunkieWow, I'm truly amazed! I don't recall seeing this level of outrage when W10 was announced as forcing updates. There was more of it, but I don't recall this much hostility.

Were you sleeping?

I kid. The reason for the hostility is almost certainly because it's easier to change an OS than a hardware item.

I sincerely hate every NVIDIA driver update, as it always stacks all my orderly distributed shortcuts and file icons on my desktop on my 3 monitors to one pile on single monitor. Also I hate the experience bloatware, because it installs several services and shield shit to my computer that actually makes your computer slower.
So less updates for me. Great News!

(However... what was wrong with option to download game ready drivers from NVIDIA homepage? Like we can download beta drivers from there now? I see no reason to remove that option.)

FordGT90ConceptIn my opinion, we should be talking about fourseparate things:
1) the graphics driver (inf, sys, etc.)
2) an automatic driver updater (could be a light weight application that delays start to check for new updates)
3) AMD CCC & NVIDIA Control Panel
4) AMD Gaming Evolved & NVIDIA GeForce Experience.

The first is required and is reasonable for Windows Update to fetch this when it using Microsoft's standard VGA driver, the second should be opt-out because most people will want to keep drivers current, the third should be opt-in because most of the important features can be handled by the operating system itself (e.g. multi-monitor support), and the fourth should be a complete separate installer (not unlike PhysX) so only people that want it will get it.

The first should include only core drivers and NOT ANY FRIGGING GAME/APP/.EXE SPECIFIC PROFILES FFS! So the concept of "game ready drivers", that only update the .exe specific profiles, is so utter bullexcrement, because those profiles SHOULD NOT EXISTS AT ALL INSIDE DRIVER PACKAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
NVIDIA SHOULD IMPLEMENT ANOTHER MECHANIC TO UPDATE THOSE PROFILES WITHOUT UPGRADING DRIVERS THAT DON'T NEED UPGRADE!

Like many others: I just use the drivers - all the other crap they can offer as an option.
When they offer "GeForce Experience" why cant they also offer "Just The Driver"?

This "advertising funding" bloatware crap is driving me nuts ..... :slap:

deemonThe first should include only core drivers and NOT ANY FRIGGING GAME/APP/.EXE SPECIFIC PROFILES FFS! So the concept of "game ready drivers", that only update the .exe specific profiles, is so utter bullexcrement, because those profiles SHOULD NOT EXISTS AT ALL INSIDE DRIVER PACKAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
NVIDIA SHOULD IMPLEMENT ANOTHER MECHANIC TO UPDATE THOSE PROFILES WITHOUT UPGRADING DRIVERS THAT DON'T NEED UPGRADE!

Agreed. AMD is guilty of this too.

They should really transition to [executable name].profile files in a specific directory so that not only can they be updated with a tiny download but they can also be removed for benchmarking/debugging purposes.

deemonI sincerely hate every NVIDIA driver update, as it always stacks all my orderly distributed shortcuts and file icons on my desktop on my 3 monitors to one pile on single monitor.

This is due to the driver disabling, Windows resizes the desktop, and then the new driver is started. There isn't anything nVidia can do about that one. For single monitors, the trick is to set the resolution BEFORE the first driver install. Then when nv unloads, the Windows default is the same as native, not 800x600 or whatever.

AMD drivers put everything back.