yotano211How can you tell that the used cards where used to mine "toy money". On \my ebay sales post I can word the sales post just right and not mention mining. I'll just mention that the card is used, all fans have been clean.

Are you confessing or bragging? :-)

notbAre you confessing or bragging? :)

Bragging or confessing about what.

yotano211How can you tell that the used cards where used to mine "toy money". On \my ebay sales post I can word the sales post just right and not mention mining. I'll just mention that the card is used, all fans have been clean.

Here in Finland we tell the card's condition honestly we sell them, like has it been overclocked or has the thermal paste been changed etc.

I buy my cards on forums when I buy used cards.

yotano211USD is partially made from trees.

So does that mean I can then? no lawn against growing money on trees? since people can grow money with there GPU's now apparently and its legal, so whats the diff?

9700 ProHere in Finland we tell the card's condition honestly we sell them, like has it been overclocked or has the thermal paste been changed etc.

I buy my cards on forums when I buy used cards.

I sell things on places that will give the highest price or most traffic.

MelvisSo does that mean I can then? no lawn against growing money on trees? since people can grow money with there GPU's now apparently and its legal, so whats the diff?

If you live in the US, talk to your local Congressman or state Representative about growing money on trees, if they allow you.

yotano211If you live in the US, talk to your local Congressman or state Representative about growing money on trees, if they allow you.

Hey why not, if they allow us to grow money on computers then im sure they will allow us to grow money on trees LOL

Just proves how completely stupid this all is now doesnt it.

MelvisHey why not, if they allow us to grow money on computers then im sure they will allow us to grow money on trees LOL

Just proves how completely stupid this all is now doesnt it.

That doesnt prove anything. Why not join the fun while there is still time. Make some money like some of us.

yotano211That doesnt prove anything. Why not join the fun while there is still time. Make some money like some of us.

It actually proves everything really, means that now it is perfectly legal to make your own money at home does it not? Until they make it legal in every country and through the court system it is in my eyes illegal.

Dont get me wrong its sorta cool and shit but its going to get out of hand if it hasnt already and shits going to hit the fan.

MelvisIt actually proves everything really, means that now it is perfectly legal to make your own money at home does it not? Until they make it legal in every country and through the court system it is in my eyes illegal.

Dont get me wrong its sorta cool and shit but its going to get out of hand if it hasnt already and shits going to hit the fan.

So get in and get out fast.

yotano211Bragging or confessing about what.

About not revealing how the thing you're selling has been used.

Sure, you don't have to write how the card was used in your sale offers. But will you reveal that to the buyer if he asks?

notbYou really believe in what you're saying? Just how is it "embedded itself into things"? :-D
"Taking things with it" - like what?

BTC is not very well utilized. It's not important. It has advantages, but nothing fantastic - nothing we can't live without.
Think about PayPal - a giant when it comes to online payments. And what would happen if PayPal suddenly vanished? Pretty much nothing, maybe just a small shock at first.

We don't need cryptocurrencies. Of course they are very useful, so they will stay in our lives, but the ones we have today (like BTC) simply create way too many problems.

One of bitcoin aims (if not the most important one) was to popularize the idea of blockchain. And it succeeded for sure - soon blockchain will become an important idea of many systems (not just in finance). But open cryptocurrencies mined with private GPUs? Oh come on.

Paypap going away would be quite huge. Would the world end, no probably not, but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be a large market hiccup from it and that just uses local currency and is nothing more than a fancy container.

cdawallPaypap going away would be quite huge. Would the world end, no probably not, but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be a large market hiccup from it and that just uses local currency and is nothing more than a fancy container.

And you think BTC is more than a fancy container?

notbAnd you think BTC is more than a fancy container?

BTC is a currency. PayPal is a wallet.

cdawallBTC is a currency. PayPal is a wallet.

BTC is not a currency - you're just wrong here. You're in US and US law classifies it as an asset - a commodity to be precise.
It can be called an "alternative currency", but that doesn't change the fact that when you use BTC in a transaction, you're not actually paying for a product (like you would with money), but you're exchanging products, like you would in a barter.

No offense, but this is not our first discussion about cryptocurrencies and each time I get the impression that you've never really bothered to learn something about the concept. Why is that?
You setup rigs, you check the cashflows and as long as it seems profitable, you're fine. If money stops, you'll quit. Simple as that, right? :)

notbBTC is not a currency - you're just wrong here. You're in US and US law classifies it as an asset - a commodity to be precise.
It can be called an "alternative currency", but that doesn't change the fact that when you use BTC in a transaction, you're not actually paying for a product (like you would with money), but you're exchanging products, like you would in a barter.

No offense, but this is not our first discussion about cryptocurrencies and each time I get the impression that you've never really bothered to learn something about the concept. Why is that?
You setup rigs, you check the cashflows and as long as it seems profitable, you're fine. If money stops, you'll quit. Simple as that, right? :)

US law doesn't determine anything as far as what a currency is an is not.by the definition of a currency it is one.

I have done enough research into what bitcoin mining is and how it works and furthermore I am not mining bitcoin I am mining other cryptoCURRENCY.

Ehm, "legal tender." If a plaintiff demands payment in Bitcoins, because it is not legal tender, a court can order the defendant to pay in legal tender (e.g. cash) and it would likely adjust for the actual market value of the product/service bought, not whatever inflated price Bitcoin is going for now. A court can't order payment in the form of Bitcoins unless it has legal tender status.

Legal tender has a very specific scope in law where currency is a more broad, casual word. Case in point: Monopoly comes with currency but it is not legal tender.


I used Bitcoin in the example above because it is the most prominent. Can substitute any cryptocurrency in there.

FordGT90ConceptEhm, "legal tender." If a plaintiff demands payment in Bitcoins, because it is not legal tender, a court can order the defendant to pay in legal tender (e.g. cash) and it would likely adjust for the actual market value of the product/service bought, not whatever inflated price Bitcoin is going for now. A court can't order payment in the form of Bitcoins unless it has legal tender status.

Legal tender has a very specific scope in law where currency is a more broad, casual word. Case in point: Monopoly comes with currency but it is not legal tender.


I used Bitcoin in the example above because it is the most prominent. Can substitute any cryptocurrency in there.

Bitcoin is legal tender in multiple countries

Only the EU as far as I can tell. Most countries treat it as a commodity (including USA) and others explicitly declared it not "legal tender."

cdawallUS law doesn't determine anything as far as what a currency is an is not.by the definition of a currency it is one.

The state has to name something a currency. Sorry.
www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance

Also, bitcoin doesn't fulfill the requirements to be a currency (as it is usually defined). There are at least 3 big problems:
1) It's not commonly accepted and thus not easy to exchange (use).
I know you could argue with this and instantly give me 10 names of huge online stores that do, but that's not called "common acceptance". Try paying with BTC in a grocery store.
Far more sellers will accept a commodity like gold (and it doesn't make it a currency), many will prefer a simple barter.
2) Stemming from the above: BTC is not a stable store of value.
And I don't mean the (obvious) instability in time. I mean stability "in space", so to speak.
A widely accepted currency has similar value to everyone, but BTC doesn't. That is: if someone's needs are not covered by stores that accept BTC, he'll have to sell it to someone else first. And it might even be that he doesn't have a BTC wallet, so he'll have to create one. That's all additional cost, implying a lower value.
3) Bitcoin transactions are way to slow.
Blockchain is an excellent technology for things that today need long confirmation. For example if you're making a simple, ordinary bank transfer, it has to go through a very complicated system of confirmation and booking (it usually takes a day). Replacing that with bitcoin's 10 minutes would be a revolution.
But imagine paying with BTC in Walmart or for train tickets at the counter. That would be fun to watch.

cdawallI have done enough research into what bitcoin mining is and how it works and furthermore I am not mining bitcoin I am mining other cryptoCURRENCY.

So you've done research on how a bitcoin is created and maintained - the technical stuff. It has nothing to do with how money works. Learning how dollar banknotes are printed doesn't tell you anything about what USD currency is.

And the fact that it has a "currency" in name doesn't make it a currency. I mean, it could also be written like this: CRYPTocurrency. So what?

cdawallBitcoin is legal tender in multiple countries

Bitcoin is legal in many countries, but it's not a legal tender. I'm also including the wiki link (like @FordGT90Concept did) in case you get bored with flashing mining BIOS etc. :p

FordGT90ConceptOnly the EU as far as I can tell. Most countries treat it as a commodity (including USA) and others explicitly declared it not "legal tender."

It's not a currency in EU as well. It's either a commodity or a unidentified object. :)
The wiki article you've linked only mentions a ruling by a Court of Justice of the European Union. Two issues:
1) it's not a court in a way you're used to. It's an institution that interprets Union's law and rules whether state legislation is in line with it. It never ruled that BTC is a currency, nor it has this kind of competence (since EU law doesn't precisely say what cryptocurrency is). Also, EU doesn't use a common law system (like US or UK), so a court ruling does not become a law rule (no precedent).
2) EU is not a federal union like US. EU legislation is not automatically in effect in all member states - they have very high autonomy. Even if EU decided to name Bitcoin a currency, it would take years for member states to accept it. In fact even euro - the official currency of EU - is a legal tender in just 19 out of 28 member states.

Yeah, my bad. Only law can establish legal tender. A court can order likeness but not establishment. A similar likeness case occurred in the USA last year but it isn't legal tender until Congress declares it so (that will never happen).

FordGT90ConceptYeah, my bad. Only law can establish legal tender. A court can order likeness but not establishment. A similar likeness case occurred in the USA last year but it isn't legal tender until Congress declares it so (that will never happen).

Forget about Bitcoin. In a couple of years there will be cryptocurrencies run by banks. No GPU mining will be happening and these will be well established private money, so - even if they're not governed by states and accepted as legal tender - they'll be accepted everywhere. Why?
Because every time you'll click "pay by transfer" and be taken to your bank website, the actual thing transfer will be a blockchain-based value. You'll see USD and the other party will see USD, but banks will see a "coin". And the transfer will be almost instant - similar to that of a credit card.

As for the cryptocurrencies we have today - I doubt they will ever be illegalized. And they won't become a legal tender either - surely not before they become a lot more stable (but how could that be forced?).
Making a stable, robust and easier to use alternative will kill bitcoin and all the smaller variants anyway.

Not likely. Banks already keep record of all their transactions down to the penny on a daily basis and Automated Clearinghouse Services have been fast, secure, and reliable for forty years now.

Enjoy some light reading:
www.depositaccounts.com/blog/how-ach-transfers-work.html

The originators send the information to the ODFI (your bank) which then deducts those amounts from your account. At this point, the money is still in your account, but it’s not available to you because holds have been placed on those funds. The lender's bank transfers the amounts to the lenders’ accounts, but the bank doesn't make the money available yet. These transactions will be listed as a "pending ACH transfers". Once the RDFI (usually the Federal Reserve) receives the information, the accounts are reconciled (“balanced”), proven to have sufficient funds to complete the transaction ("cleared"), and the money is officially deducted from your account and deposited in your lenders’ accounts ("settled").

The Automated Clearing House (ACH) was established initially in 1972 as a collaborative effort between California banks and the regional Federal Reserve to simplify the processing of paperless check transactions. Word of its success spread so quickly that many other ACH associations were founded, and agreements were made between the associations and their respective regional banks to operate regional ACH networks. Two years later, in 1974, the National Automated Clearing House Association (NACHA) was founded to develop a national ACH network. By 1978, this had been achieved, and all ACH networks throughout the United States were linked electronically. In 1980, the Monetary Control Act was passed that gave private sector ACH operators the right to compete with the Federal Reserve Bank because the Federal Reserve could no longer offer free services since its operating costs had to be recovered. As a result, there are three private sector ACH operators: American Clearing House Association, The New York Automated Clearing House, and VisaNet ACH Services. Currently, the Fed ACH Operator, otherwise known as the Federal Reserve, handles more than 85 percent of ACH transactions. The ACH Network allows such streamlined services as online bill pay, direct deposit, and direct debiting, and it’s a faster, more secure alternative to paper check clearance. Today, the ACH Network consists of more than 12,000 financial institutions, 650 industry councils, and a network of regional ACH associations that are governed by NACHA from its headquarters in Herndon, VA.

Again, cryptocurrencies are solutions looking for a problem.

FordGT90ConceptNot likely. Banks already keep record of all their transactions down to the penny on a daily basis and Automated Clearinghouse Services have been fast, secure, and reliable for forty years now.

Enjoy some light reading:
www.depositaccounts.com/blog/how-ach-transfers-work.html

I might not fully understand what this is about, because of how different US and European banking is.
If I understand correctly, this is just a system for electronic transfers between banks and it's considered fast, because of how popular cheques are in US, right?

It's well known that Americans are very traditional when money and banking are concerned.*
You must remember that this is not how banking looks outside US. I think this is one of the reasons why bitcoin as a form of payment is not that impressive here.

But going back to how electronic transactions work and how blockchain can be useful.
Of course each bank has a different system for booking, so there are special institutions that provide the interface between them (I'll use the word "hub"). If I understand correctly, that's what Automated Clearinghouse Services is doing.
Thing is though, these transactions between banks are organized not in real time, but always in sessions (there are just some workarounds that can simulate real-time confirmation).
Blockchain could potentially replace this idea. It can provide secure transactions between banks in matter of seconds.

*) I've just opened a wiki page which states that cheques are still used for transaction between banks i.e. you make an electronic transfer to someone in another bank, but your bank actually prints a cheque and posts it. Weird.
I'm still fairly surprised by the slow adoption of chip cards and contact-less payments in US, but this cheque thing is just mind-blowing. :o

FordGT90ConceptNot likely.

Dude. Just google "bank blockchain tech." You could not be more wrong.