Wow Intel, you guys should get the "biggest scumbag of 2017" award. This is the kind of shit that EA and Comcast pulls.

Edit: I reread the post, seems it's microsoft that deserves this more than Intel.

Intel doesnt want to update the drivers for it, too much work for them.

Why update drivers when they want you to buy new?

RehmanpaWow Intel, you guys should get the "biggest scumbag of 2017" award. This is the kind of shit that EA and Comcast pulls.

Edit: I reread the post, seems it's microsoft that deserves this more than Intel.

Microsoft made the move first, with WDDM 2.2. So yea.

DeathtoGnomesIntel doesnt want to update the drivers for it, too much work for them.

More like, Intel doesn't want to pay as much as Imagination Tech. wants to get for the coding needed, I would wager. Since it's patented closed-source tech Intel can't touch.

SteevoWhy update drivers when they want you to buy new?

Pretty much how technology moves forward, first you end compatibility and then you change the used standards.

Honestly, when you do rolling releases, you're bound to leave some hardware behind from time to time (look at the Linux world). Granted, this usually happens 5-10 years after people forget said hardware even exists, but still, it's not unprecedented.

Somewhat unrelated, but this is also what hinders Android updates in a big way: phones are put together from a lot of closed hardware and then suppliers simply refuse to provide new drivers. Manufacturers are forced to buy their new chips, customers get the shaft.

They need to go back to Windows 8.1 Bing but almos imposible to find and download.

What is better? Stay at Windows 7,8.x, or stay at Windows 10 Anniversary update? That's the question Clover Trail owners will probably have to answer.

Anyway, instead of having Windows 1, 2, 3 etc. and not finding drivers for the latest Windows version, it seems that now we will have the Windows update 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. and not finding a driver for the latest update. Things changed, but in fact stayed the same.

I don't know if it is Intel here to blame or Imagination. Does Imagination refuse to create drivers even if Intel is paying, or does Intel expect Imagination to create drivers out of it's good heart? What is probably certain is that in this case Microsoft is not to blame. Maybe we will blame them latter when they will exclude CPUs that are much more widespread and with higher performance. For example think in the next update to not support Core2Quad cpus or Phenoms. Windows 7 will stay for a decade more in that case. But in this case they are probably not to blame. They don't write Imagination's drivers, neither we read a press release saying that Microsoft intentionally created incompatibility here. In fact it's not in Microsoft's interest to send machines back to a previous version of Windows.

john_What is better? Stay at Windows 7,8.x, or stay at Windows 10 Anniversary update? That's the question Clover Trail owners will probably have to answer.

Anyway, instead of having Windows 1, 2, 3 etc. and not finding drivers for the latest Windows version, it seems that now we will have the Windows update 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. and not finding a driver for the latest update. Things changed, but in fact stayed the same.

I don't know if it is Intel here to blame or Imagination. Does Imagination refuse to create drivers even if Intel is paying, or does Intel expect Imagination to create drivers out of it's good heart? What is probably certain is that in this case Microsoft is not to blame. Maybe we will blame them latter when they will exclude CPUs that are much more widespread and with higher performance. For example think in the next update to not support Core2Quad cpus or Phenoms. Windows 7 will stay for a decade more in that case. But in this case they are probably not to blame. They don't write Imagination's drivers, neither we read a press release saying that Microsoft intentionally created incompatibility here. In fact it's not in Microsoft's interest to send machines back to a previous version of Windows.

It's usually the manufacturers that are more into hardware and treat software (drivers) as an afterthought. However, that does not absolve Intel for not signing an agreement with them to protect the end user and ensure sufficient ongoing support. As a customer, I only have a business relationship with Intel, not Imagination. So when my chip stops receiving support, it's Intel I'm going to blame not Imagination.

Yeah, what's even "better" is that people stuck with this old Windows version will constantly get nags to update to latest one, while not being able to actually do that. If I know Microsoft and how they do stuff recently...

in some ways (security updates apart) all enforced updates area a pain in the arse.. i wish i could turn all mine off.. :)

in this case we are mostly talking about cheap tablets with built in batteries that aint gonna last long anyways.. no big deal and a storm in a teacup..

i just bought a teclast kindow to use as an ebook reader.. dual boot android and the original windows 10 on it.. it cost me £63 quid new with free postage.. 2 gigs of ram and 32 gigs storage.. it comes with a message "this machine is intended to work with the software it comes with"..

it works fine for what i bought it for and the last thing i want is MS messing about with it.. he he..

even off line it nags me about anti virus updates but that is all..

the joke of it is.. the entire machine complete with two operating system cost me less than copy of windows 10 home would.. do i need it updating.. no f-cking way..

trog

ps.. this is the second kindow i have bought.. the built in battery died after a year on the first one and with a lot of messing about i did get it to take the first full windows update.. this one i will leave alone.. the updated versions of windows 10 genuinely aint worth the hassle on these cheapo atom powered machines..

if it aint broke dont fix it.. is a lesson MS needs to learn.. or at least give the user a choice..

bugIt's usually the manufacturers that are more into hardware and treat software (drivers) as an afterthought. However, that does not absolve Intel for not signing an agreement with them to protect the end user and ensure sufficient ongoing support. As a customer, I only have a business relationship with Intel, not Imagination. So when my chip stops receiving support, it's Intel I'm going to blame not Imagination.

Yeap, you are absolutely right there. Good point.

I'm guessing that WDDM 2.2 has surfaced a major defect in the PowerVR GPU hardware and/or drivers that's going to require significant work to correct. PowerVR can fix it, but want major moola from Intel to do so, and Intel isn't willing to fork out for that (probably because they view this defect as PowerVR's problem/fault, not theirs). And PowerVR have the driver source code and won't give it to Intel without the aforementioned moola, so yeah... Clover Trail is dead.

Blame PowerVR for making s**tty graphics chips (what, did you expect a GPU used in smartphones would actually have longevity and be properly programmable?), blame Intel for making the terrible decision to use a 3rd party's GPU in their Atom chips (one of the many factors that I'm certain has contributed to killing Atom), but don't blame Microsoft for releasing a specification that poorly-designed hardware cannot conform to.

And honestly... if you bought the cheapest of the cheap Windows tablet that had obsolete hardware specs when it was manufactured, and expected it to actually keep getting updates until 2023 (a decade after the Clover Trail platform was launched)... the only one to blame is you.

Umm, just use the same drivers as the anniversary update?

RehmanpaWow Intel, you guys should get the "biggest scumbag of 2017" award. This is the kind of shit that EA and Comcast pulls.

Edit: I reread the post, seems it's microsoft that deserves this more than Intel.

Honestly, I don't think either really deserves much hate here.

These machines are old. We are talking about processors that were released 4-5 years ago, and EOL'd 2 years ago. I don't blame Intel(or Imagination) at all for not wanting to put money into a product to fix a bug in the driver. Plus, these processors are weak. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think these are 32-bit processors that only support a maximum of 2GB of RAM anyway. They were barely qualified to run Windows 10 as it was. You have to really wonder how many of these machines are even still out in the wild. I don't think that many. They were cheap throw away machines when they were new.

I also don't blame Microsoft either. They have committed to supporting these processors with the current version of Windows 10 security wise through 2023. I don't think there is anything in the Creators update that the few remaining users of these machines will miss. Their machines will continue to function, they will continue to be secure, so I don't see an issue. They don't get the latest Windows features, too bad, they still get Windows 10. Plus, when these machines were bought, they all came with Windows 8/8.1. Windows 8/8.1 has guaranteed support into...you guessed it...2023. So the people are getting exactly what they paid for, and more thanks to the free upgrade to Windows 10 and all the improvements that come with it.

People who bought these computers shouldn't be complaining. They bought, literally, the cheapest and weakest computer they could at the time. If the computer is even usable(meaning isn't so slow you just want to throw it against a wall) after 3-4 yerars, they should be ecstatic. And with a very slow Atom processor and only 2GB of RAM, these machines are probably already pretty slow. I'm guessing most are probably being used as little more than a glorified e-reader at this point...

RejZoRYeah, what's even "better" is that people stuck with this old Windows version will constantly get nags to update to latest one, while not being able to actually do that. If I know Microsoft and how they do stuff recently...

I'm pretty sure once the machine fails the update compatibility check it doesn't nag you to update constantly.

GasarakiUmm, just use the same drivers as the anniversary update?

Good idea, maybe they forgot to try that

XiGMAKiDGood idea, maybe they forgot to try that

That is the driver that is loaded by default, since there isn't a newer one. The problem appears to be a bug in that driver is conflicting with the new implementation of WDDM2.2 that the Creators Update uses.

newtekie1Honestly, I don't think either really deserves much hate here.

These machines are old. We are talking about processors that were released 4-5 years ago, and EOL'd 2 years ago. I don't blame Intel(or Imagination) at all for not wanting to put money into a product to fix a bug in the driver. Plus, these processors are weak. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think these are 32-bit processors that only support a maximum of 2GB of RAM anyway. They were barely qualified to run Windows 10 as it was. You have to really wonder how many of these machines are even still out in the wild. I don't think that many. They were cheap throw away machines when they were new.

I also don't blame Microsoft either. They have committed to supporting these processors with the current version of Windows 10 security wise through 2023. I don't think there is anything in the Creators update that the few remaining users of these machines will miss. Their machines will continue to function, they will continue to be secure, so I don't see an issue. They don't get the latest Windows features, too bad, they still get Windows 10. Plus, when these machines were bought, they all came with Windows 8/8.1. Windows 8/8.1 has guaranteed support into...you guessed it...2023. So the people are getting exactly what they paid for, and more thanks to the free upgrade to Windows 10 and all the improvements that come with it.

People who bought these computers shouldn't be complaining. They bought, literally, the cheapest and weakest computer they could at the time. If the computer is even usable(meaning isn't so slow you just want to throw it against a wall) after 3-4 yerars, they should be ecstatic. And with a very slow Atom processor and only 2GB of RAM, these machines are probably already pretty slow. I'm guessing most are probably being used as little more than a glorified e-reader at this point...

With PCs not advancing as fast as in the past, I don't think that a 5 years old processor shouldn't be supported. I wouldn't call that old either. How would people react if their i5 2500 isn't compatible with the latest update of Windows? And while those Atom processors where pathetic from day one, the systems where they where integrated, probably didn't had a very low price. I mean, netbooks and tablets from known OEMs don't sell for $80. They where advertised as premium tablets compared to the android ones. And even in that case, many of those low end systems ended up to people with low income, so for them a $250 netbook is like a i7 laptop to others, from a price point.

On the other hand, I do agree with the rest of your post. People got more than what they payed for. They will just not get more. But it is alarming if 5 years old hardware from companies like Intel, starts seeing less and less long term support. This unfortunate event could give some bad ideas to big companies, about how they can force people to upgrade more often.

john_With PCs not advancing as fast as in the past, I don't think that a 5 years old processor shouldn't be supported. How would people react if their i5 2500 isn't compatible with the latest update of Windows?

It all depends on the processor. The i5 2500 was a higher end model. Hell, compared to these Atoms, the Celerons were high end models. These processors were so budget Intel couldn't even be bothered to build the GPU for them, they farmed it out to a 3rd party... These processors were effectively outdated the day they were released. Again, their only 32-bit and only support 2GB of RAM. Considering there were rumors that Windows 10 would be 64-bit only back then, people who bought these machines should be ecstatic that Windows 10 even runs on them.

john_And while those Atom processors where pathetic from day one, the systems where they where integrated, probably didn't had a very low price. I mean, netbooks and tablets from known OEMs don't sell for $80. They where advertised as premium tablets compared to the android ones. And even in that case, many of those low end systems ended up to people with low income, so for them a $250 netbook is like a i7 laptop to others, from a price point.

I bought a ASUS Transformer with the Z3735, the next generation after these CloverTrail processor, back in 2015 for $135. These may have been in computers that were slightly more expensive than an Android Tablet, but they weren't expensive computers by any means. They were really meant to compete with the Android/Chromebook market and take sales away from those. They came with the free version of Windows 8/8.1 with Bing to drive down the cost even further. And they only way they could do the job of stealing sales from Android tablets and Chromebooks was to be cheap.

Yes it is unfortunate if you are a low income person and this was a big purchase for you, and your only computer. But, like I said, they are still receiving security updates for over 10 years of support until 2023. These computers will be useless by then, they are borderline useless today(I know my Z3735 is pretty damn slow). They won't get the new features, but the computers aren't being rendered non-functional bricks either. Just the fact that the computers continue to work and are secure is all they care about.

@newtekie1 has rhe same basic opinion on this as me. Garbage throw away chip doesn't get an update it was never designed for, but continues to get security updates. Sounds fine.

This is certainly not something new. 'Member when printer companies (HP, I'm looking at you!) were douches when Vista came out? They wouldn't put out Vista drivers for a bunch of printers at the time, printers that by all accounts should have still been fine on Vista with a new Vista flavored driver.

Sounds like Imagination is going "why should we put out a new compatible driver?"**

**=provided they are actually able to do so and that their isn't a hardware/OS reason they can't.

Sounds like Intel dropped the ball on securing contractual obligations with Imagination.

cdawall@newtekie1 has rhe same basic opinion on this as me. Garbage throw away chip doesn't get an update it was never designed for, but continues to get security updates. Sounds fine.

Yep, people that still have computers with this processor can continue to securely use their computers until 2023.

And to the point of people saying "can you imagine if you bought a computer and less than 5 years later it wouldn't support the newest OS" I say, remember the transition period from XP to Vista to 7? You could buy a computer in 2006 that wasn't even supported by the already released Vista OS, and that definitely meant it wasn't supported by Windows 7 that came out only 3 years later.

WDDM 2.2 adds support for "virtual, augmented and mixed reality with stereoscopic rendering for the Windows Holographic platform." These aren't features Clover Trail could support in the first place. It's very possible DXGI 2.0 (probably WDDM 2.3) will be coming soon which will add native VR headset support to Windows 10.

Clover Trail uses PowerVR SGX544 MP2 clocked 300-533 MHz. The highest clock produces a pitiful 34.1 GFLOPS. Intel stopped using PowerVR chips after Atom Z3###. In other words, we're likely to hear support drop for those within a year as well. Atom Z8### series uses Intel Broadwell GPUs that start at 96 GFLOPS, almost three times faster. Source.

TL;DR: No one should shed a tear over Clover Trail.

newtekie1It all depends on the processor. The i5 2500 was a higher end model. Hell, compared to these Atoms, the Celerons were high end models. These processors were so budget Intel couldn't even be bothered to build the GPU for them, they farmed it out to a 3rd party... These processors were effectively outdated the day they were released. Again, their only 32-bit and only support 2GB of RAM. Considering there were rumors that Windows 10 would be 64-bit only back then, people who bought these machines should be ecstatic that Windows 10 even runs on them.



I bought a ASUS Transformer with the Z3735, the next generation after these CloverTrail processor, back in 2015 for $135. These may have been in computers that were slightly more expensive than an Android Tablet, but they weren't expensive computers by any means. They were really meant to compete with the Android/Chromebook market and take sales away from those. They came with the free version of Windows 8/8.1 with Bing to drive down the cost even further. And they only way they could do the job of stealing sales from Android tablets and Chromebooks was to be cheap.

Yes it is unfortunate if you are a low income person and this was a big purchase for you, and your only computer. But, like I said, they are still receiving security updates for over 10 years of support until 2023. These computers will be useless by then, they are borderline useless today(I know my Z3735 is pretty damn slow). They won't get the new features, but the computers aren't being rendered non-functional bricks either. Just the fact that the computers continue to work and are secure is all they care about.

Dont use Windows 10 on this cpu it sometimes do not shuts down when you power it down, it had some kind anniversary drivers but still haw system interrupts and you still need oem Intel platform drivers when you reinstall it whit micro usb and hub +keyboard, mouse whit rufus formated as fat 32 and gpt partition for some bioses. My recovery win 8.1 Bing usb died.

I'll stick with W8.1 on my tablet, though 10 is the best I've used, but 8.1 is more tablet-friendly. It has Atom Z3735F so it could support W10 though.