Sunday, October 30th 2022
Intel's Next-Gen Desktop Platform Intros Socket LGA1851, "Meteor Lake-S" to Feature 6P+16E Core Counts
Keeping up with the cadence of two generations of desktop processors per socket, Intel will turn the page of the current LGA1700, with the introduction of the new Socket LGA1851. The processor package will likely have the same dimensions as LGA1700, and the two sockets may share cooler compatibility. The first processor microarchitecture to debut on LGA1851 will be the 14th Gen Core "Meteor Lake-S." These chips will feature a generationally lower CPU core-count compared to "Raptor Lake," but significantly bump the IPC on both the P-cores and E-cores.
"Raptor Lake" is Intel's final monolithic silicon client processor before the company pivots to chiplets built on various foundry nodes, as part of its IDM 2.0 strategy. The client-desktop version of "Meteor Lake," dubbed "Meteor Lake-S," will have a maximum CPU core configuration of 6P+16E (that's 6 performance cores with 16 efficiency cores). The chip has 6 "Redwood Cove" P-cores, and 16 "Crestmont" E-cores. Both of these are expected to receive IPC uplifts, such that the processor will end up faster (and hopefully more efficient) than the top "Raptor Lake-S" part. Particularly, it should be able to overcome the deficit of 2 P-cores.
Intel could find itself with a similar product differentiation problem it faced with the 11th Gen Core "Rocket Lake-S" desktop processors, where the physically low CPU core-count compared to the previous-generation (8-core vs. 10-core for "Comet Lake-S"); meant that both the Core i7-11700K and i9-11900K ended up being 8-core/16-thread processors. Here, we could see 6P+16E being the core-config of nearly all top SKUs, segmented by clock-speeds; while the mid-tier SKUs end up being 6P+8E.
Besides the CPU, "Meteor Lake-S" is expected to debut the new Xe-LPG graphics architecture for the iGPU, which could meet DirectX 12 Ultimate logo requirements. The iGPU on the "Meteor Lake-S" processor is expected to feature 4 Xe Cores, which works out to 64 EUs, and 512 unified shaders. This would still be a significant uplift from the iGPU of "Raptor Lake-S" with 32 EUs.
Intel is expected to restore CPU core-counts back to current levels with the 15th Gen "Arrow Lake-S" (2024-25). These chips are expected to come with core-configurations of up to 8P+16E. While the E-cores are expected to remain the same, the P-cores get a performance uplift, besides the addition of more cores. The "Compute Tile" (the die with the CPU cores) of "Meteor Lake-S" is built on the Intel 4 node (isopower characteristics comparable to TSMC 5 nm); while those of "Arrow Lake-S" will be built on the Intel 20A node (Intel is hyping 20A to be a pathbreaking node competitive with TSMC's sub 2 nm nodes).
Source:
Wccftech
"Raptor Lake" is Intel's final monolithic silicon client processor before the company pivots to chiplets built on various foundry nodes, as part of its IDM 2.0 strategy. The client-desktop version of "Meteor Lake," dubbed "Meteor Lake-S," will have a maximum CPU core configuration of 6P+16E (that's 6 performance cores with 16 efficiency cores). The chip has 6 "Redwood Cove" P-cores, and 16 "Crestmont" E-cores. Both of these are expected to receive IPC uplifts, such that the processor will end up faster (and hopefully more efficient) than the top "Raptor Lake-S" part. Particularly, it should be able to overcome the deficit of 2 P-cores.
Besides the CPU, "Meteor Lake-S" is expected to debut the new Xe-LPG graphics architecture for the iGPU, which could meet DirectX 12 Ultimate logo requirements. The iGPU on the "Meteor Lake-S" processor is expected to feature 4 Xe Cores, which works out to 64 EUs, and 512 unified shaders. This would still be a significant uplift from the iGPU of "Raptor Lake-S" with 32 EUs.
Intel is expected to restore CPU core-counts back to current levels with the 15th Gen "Arrow Lake-S" (2024-25). These chips are expected to come with core-configurations of up to 8P+16E. While the E-cores are expected to remain the same, the P-cores get a performance uplift, besides the addition of more cores. The "Compute Tile" (the die with the CPU cores) of "Meteor Lake-S" is built on the Intel 4 node (isopower characteristics comparable to TSMC 5 nm); while those of "Arrow Lake-S" will be built on the Intel 20A node (Intel is hyping 20A to be a pathbreaking node competitive with TSMC's sub 2 nm nodes).
113 Comments on Intel's Next-Gen Desktop Platform Intros Socket LGA1851, "Meteor Lake-S" to Feature 6P+16E Core Counts
As for AM5 upgrading, yeah most people won't do it but what people are missing is how cheap it will be to upgrade. You can essentially sell the old CPU for 70%ish of the purchase cost then upgrade to the new one (which is likely to be similarly priced); the bigger the market the easier this process is. So in effect you'll get a 50% performance upgrade (and whatever efficiency gains) for a 25-30% cost + the hassle of re-selling. To me that looks primo & a no-brainer.
With every passing day AM5 looks more and more worth it. :rockout:
I had bad experiences with AMD, too, I bought one of the first AM2 Mainboards in hope of upgrading to Phenom later. Only it was an Abit KN9 Ultra and Abit went benacrupt a short time after Phenom release and only some of their last AM2 Boards with nForce 520 Chipset got Phenom support. Had I bought a Gigabyte or Asus with nForce 570 Ultra/SLI or one of the first P965 Boards, I would have been able to upgrade from my Athlon64 X2 3800+ to Phenom II X4 945 or Core 2 Quad Q9650, instead I was stuck with X2 5400+ BE@3,1GHz until I upgraded to my current Haswell board.
There I was sure I would upgrade my i5-4670K to Broadwell i7, only it wasn't to be since Broadwell needed Z97 and wasn't all that good. At least we got the 4790k, which I only bought two years ago.
Yes, the 400-series only happened because the 300-series boards were not designed all to well. Yes, it would have been better if 400-series boards could have used PCIe4.0. Yes, it wasn't nice that AMD didn't want to enable Zen3 on 300 series. But it happened, allthough late. But even that an upgrade to Zen2 was possible on nearly all boards early on is much more than ever to be exspected from Intel. Yes, TR40 and TRX40 was horrible for enthusiast buyers, but no one would have asked that of Intel. To be fair, HEDT seems to be dead for the time being, so there seems to simply have been no business case for non-pro Threadripper 5000 and we won't get a new HEDT plattform from AMD.
When I buy an AM5 mainboard, I can be very sure it will at least support three cpu generations. If i had bought a Z690 board early on it would have been ok to upgrade to Raptor lake, but I couldn't decide last year. Now I know Z790 won't get anything better, apart from overpriced 13900KS. I would be nuts to chose Z790 over AM5 if upgradeability is important to me.
And let's be honest, Intel probably already has Meteor Lake running in the labs, they know exactly the performance and how it stacks up compared to current products.
It's the rotten ethics, people just need to realize AMD is a company and that they are all too happy to bend you over if it suits them. They're not our friends in a fight against the big evil leather-clad green monster or the deeply religious blue monster. The time has come and gone to acknowledge that AMD is not the good guy in this story, nor are they the small company and the underdog anymore.
Also to beg to differ on the 300 series motherboards being inferior. AGESA is EXTREMELY buggy and it has problems that affect major functionality such as PBO currently outstanding today. If you update the X370 boards they will work perfectly fine, I know a guy using a 5800X3D on his C6H with absolutely zero bugs (exclusive to that motherboard anyway, general AGESA issues still apply such as EDC bug).
There was a notorious stinker, the MSI Titanium but other than that they're no worse than the B450 and X470, even most lower cost B550s. AsRock just copy and pasted their design, it's possible to upgrade a X370 Taichi to X470 by simply replacing its BIOS chip. They're the exact same motherboard.
But cutting P-cores in favor of E-cores for lower-end SKUs is 100% idiotic (on desktop). If they did a 4P+xE i5, I would not buy that at any price.
Including more than 8 P-cores is pointless, because games do not need more than 8 cores and E-cores are more efficient for productivity. But going down to 4 P-cores would be a brain dead move with gaming-focused i5 SKUs, because no number of E-cores can make up the difference, as games do not scale like that.
intel was check that 6-core is enough.... i guess 7ghz boost..
Intel wants to return to the quad core era! Its clearly the way for them to make money on their endless monolithic rebadged Core product. It used to work, right? Why not again.
It would be funny if it wasn't true :D This really isn't progress... its nogress. Completely pointless exercises to feed marketing for the next wave of same.
Multicore performance for the last several generations has typically been limited by the package power, so the more E-cores they cram in, the better they will be for 100% multithreaded workloads. Games and most other productivity applications are just fine as long as there are a few threads running on performance cores.
Perhaps the slow sales is more a problem of competition than price, where a 7700X is hard to purchase, because, well, AM4 supports the 5800X3D. ;)
Come 2023 the cache versions of AM5 CPUs will arrive, DDR5 is down in price, and hopefuly motherboards are 150USD.
I'm one of those guys who often buy used hardware and stays a couple generations behind what is "new".
What for someone is a dead platform, for someone else can be a valid upgrade, that will last him several years.
The AM4 platform will stay popular for many other years to come. Only the people that have the money to buy the Ryzen 9 5950X can afford the AM5 jump so early. The ones with the Zen 2 and Zen 3 cpus, or even with a Ryzen 7 5800, can simply buy a used more powerful Ryzen and spend the other money in a gpu, if needed.
AMD, Intel and NVIDIA can do all the live shows they want and hype their products in every manner, but this doesn't mean that the people following these events, videos and articles will run to buy their stuff. Half of the people will keep their hardware and wait for better times. Lot of others will buy used parts. And lot of the people with the money will wait for better deals.
(* 7600X 70, 7700X 110, 7900X 60, 7950X 60 - total 300. 13600K/KF 310, 13700K/KF 320, 13900K/KF 60 - total 690.)
Realistically, most people aren't using coolers capable of 350W and what will actually happen is that the reduction in P cores will free up a bunch of power budget for the 16 E-cores and multithreaded performance ought to be better than the current 8P + 16E interations.
With infinite power and cooling, this will likely be a downgrade or a sidegrade. For real-world, normal people with off-the-shelf AIOs and tower coolers, this is going to get more performance out of their limited cooling and motherboard VRMs.
The myth was powered not my AMD, but by Intel, who was doing meaningless changing between sockets 1151, 1151v2 and 1200 with ZERO reasons for it, some people even managed to run 1151v2 cpus on 1151 socket with some bios tricks.