So... they will run those CPUs at 1.0-1.1V instead of 1.25-1.35V ?

It also comes with cool stories, bro. "50% increased efficiency", I'll believe it when I see it (and I won't).

Wondering if those will see a desktop appearance similar to Broadwell

Is this IGP the new Battlemage graphics architecture?

XeanoaWondering if those will see a desktop appearance similar to Broadwell

Disaggregation makes that certainly a possibility, given that eDRAM on Broadwell was its own die. But it'd probably have to either be L3 or a much faster L4 (EMIB?).

Though the slides for this one just look like Intel has a normal and reduced L3 design (ie. Matisse/Renoir or Vermeer/Cezanne) targeted towards maybe some lower power SKUs.

AssimilatorIt also comes with cool stories, bro. "50% increased efficiency", I'll believe it when I see it (and I won't).

As usual it's likely to be a comparison with the previous-generation CPU working at PL2, where it will obviously be inefficient.

The voltage tiles are interesting. Seems like a more efficient packaging than having physically separate dies like on AM4/5, since the parts are much closer together.

Thank You AMD :o), like come on they wouldn't be doing this most likely if AMD did not push it.

AsRockThank You AMD :eek:), like come on they wouldn't be doing this most likely if AMD did not push it.

Oh, 100%...and that's why all of us should be cheering for AMD to grab more marketshare at intel's expense....in a duopoly, the best a consumer can hope for is a 50%/50% split in the market....a balance of power, and AMD still has a lot more work to go to even get close to 50% in the most lucrative x86 segments: mobility and enterprise.

Anyone know why Intel is using TSMC? Is it for the process node or for the capacity? Or is it to try and steal capacity away from AMD? In the last few months Intel has talked about selling their fab capacity to customers so I'm just confused as to why they'd be using TSMC...

AnarchoPrimitivOh, 100%...and that's why all of us should be cheering for AMD to grab more marketshare at intel's expense....in a duopoly, the best a consumer can hope for is a 50%/50% split in the market....a balance of power, and AMD still has a lot more work to go to even get close to 50% in the most lucrative x86 segments: mobility and enterprise.

Anyone know why Intel is using TSMC? Is it for the process node or for the capacity? Or is it to try and steal capacity away from AMD? In the last few months Intel has talked about selling their fab capacity to customers so I'm just confused as to why they'd be using TSMC...

It's a risk hedge - if they cannot get their fab to produce the new nodes on schedule (as has been the core issue in the past).

They want to guarantee they can get product to market, and if their competing node is ready, then great, if not then the core product doesn't get delayed for the 20th time.

Soo, what's the reason for the 6 P-cores maximum limit?
Sure, maybe Intel could do better than that in the end, but then again it's a bit risky using a pic like this when everyone's already seen the rumors of that limit.

That sounds nice, I wonder if the move to EUV has anything to do with this.
Intel 4 (7nm) should be EUV


Worst case should make F sku's a lot cheaper too.

phanbueyIt's a risk hedge - if they cannot get their fab to produce the new nodes on schedule (as has been the core issue in the past).

They want to guarantee they can get product to market, and if their competing node is ready, then great, if not then the core product doesn't get delayed for the 20th time.

And they probably ordered a certain volume for arc which is a dud and being able to swap that out with tiny graphics dies is a way to fill that capacity up

That would be nice if Intel tiling could completely omit the iGPU for a much better price drop than $10.

MatsSoo, what's the reason for the 6 P-cores maximum limit?

Intel usually debuts its new processes with small chips. The first product built using the 14 nm process was Broadwell-Y: a dual core SOC. That has been the way for a while yet, and given the troubles they had with 10 nm, it's a good approach.

agent_x007So... they will run those CPUs at 1.0-1.1V instead of 1.25-1.35V ?

Operating voltage alone does not directly translate to efficiency.

Chrispy_Is this IGP the new Battlemage graphics architecture?

It should be, but nothing is confirmed yet. If 128eu xe2 is really double 96eu xe1 in performance, then that bodes well for B770 and B380. We'll see though, I doubt that performance will be that good.

dj-electricOperating voltage alone does not directly translate to efficiency.

It does when for +5% extra performance you need +20% power (and more power = more voltage in this case).
^and it's 100% the case for high end models of both 12-th/13-th gen and Ryzen 7000X line-up.
Best efficiency doesn't = "max. performance", or at least that's how I see it.

TheinsanegamerNIt should be, but nothing is confirmed yet. If 128eu xe2 is really double 96eu xe1 in performance, then that bodes well for B770 and B380. We'll see though, I doubt that performance will be that good.

I've lived in hope since Early 2020 for a decent Ryzen APU that can do lightweight modern gaming without a dGPU.

I had Renoir, it was underwhelming old Vega architecture hampered by DDR4 rather than LPDDR4 in so many models.
I have a few 6800U Lenovo models at work, they are choked by lousy bios and pathetic cooling - with so few other options with 6800U in the UK, I've written off RDNA2 for now.

128xe2 doesn't have to be amazing, it just has to be comparable to the 12CU RDNA2 IGP in Ryzen 6000-series. AMD's product is excellent but the very limited number of design wins mean that there aren't (m)any good options available to me and Intel is just a powerhouse in terms of sales and design wins. Every major brand will have 10+ different configs in various form factors and all the stupid no-name Amazon/AliExpress OEMs will throw a few hats into the ring too.

So yeah, Battlemage IGP doesn't have to be the clear winner, it just has to be good enough and widely-available. It'll take that over "theoretically better, but not available to me in the format I want, or at a reasonable price"

Chrispy_I've lived in hope since Early 2020 for a decent Ryzen APU that can do lightweight modern gaming without a dGPU.

I had Renoir, it was underwhelming old Vega architecture hampered by DDR4 rather than LPDDR4 in so many models.

My current laptop is a 4800h with no dGPU. It works great for anything from the PS3 era, for modern stuff it can normally cope with 720p low. Halo infinite even plays on it.

Chrispy_I have a few 6800U Lenovo models at work, they are choked by lousy bios and pathetic cooling - with so few other options with 6800U in the UK, I've written off RDNA2 for now.

Which models do you have? The T14s has gotten rave reviews as has the x13. neither had cooling issues.

You may want to check out starlabs. They make laptops with 99whr batteries and 45w ryzen APUs. Their new 7940hs model is gonna be sweet....

us.starlabs.systems/

You can even get them with coreboot, if linux is your thing.

Chrispy_128xe2 doesn't have to be amazing, it just has to be comparable to the 12CU RDNA2 IGP in Ryzen 6000-series. AMD's product is excellent but the very limited number of design wins mean that there aren't (m)any good options available to me and Intel is just a powerhouse in terms of sales and design wins. Every major brand will have 10+ different configs in various form factors and all the stupid no-name Amazon/AliExpress OEMs will throw a few hats into the ring too.

So yeah, Battlemage IGP doesn't have to be the clear winner, it just has to be good enough and widely-available. It'll take that over "theoretically better, but not available to me in the format I want, or at a reasonable price"

It's gotta be pretty amazing. In my experience, having access to multiple configs, xe96 with LP4266 RAM is still a bit slower then the vega 7. It struggles in situations with a lot of lighting effects, to say noting of drivers. The radeon 680m is easily 2x fast as the vega 7, sometimes closer to 2.5x in newer games, and the 780m is supposed to me 20%+ faster then 680m. with 128eu, if intel doesnt get power usage under control, my best guess would be +40% over current xe, much better, but a far cry from the 780m.

Looks good on paper, like other promising Intel products, for example the now defunct Optane.

But it would be something revolutionary if it works as it appears.

TheinsanegamerNWhich models do you have? The T14s has gotten rave reviews as has the x13. neither had cooling issues.

There is only a single T14s for sale on the Lenovo website at a truly comical £2580 for specs you get on sub-£1000 models from everyone else, including most consumer Lenovos. It's a cruel joke.

I have a couple of Yoga 7 Slims. Crippled by cTDP that caps boost at a meagre 19W. There's a full fan mode that sounds like a hair dryer and allows 26W boost for a short 2-3 minute duration but it cannot maintain it so it's utterly useless for gaming and seems to back itself down to 22-23W at most.

Most of the 6800U reviews looking at performance vs cTDP agree that the IGP needs 28W to really stretch its legs. at 19W it's fighting the CPU cores for power, or being bottlenecked by the CPU it stole power from :\

TheinsanegamerNYou may want to check out starlabs. They make laptops with 99whr batteries and 45w ryzen APUs. Their new 7940hs model is gonna be sweet....

Nice, but as mentioned, it's a disaster because their only 6000-series laptop is a 16" chungus for £1365 starting price. There is absolutely no shortage of similar size/weight Intel options of similar or higher quality, lower price, and with vastly superior Nvidia dGPUs in them; If I'm willing to carry around a larger, heavier laptop I might as well get a dGPU for my troubles. £1000 gets you a decent 15.6" or 16" option with a 3050Ti or 3060. Sure, they use more power than an Star Labs Starfighter, but they're comparable size, weight, and have 4x the GPU power of the Radeon 680M.

IMO, IGPs are the realm of thin 12-14" 1kg portables, that's why I mentioned lack of design wins in the form factor I want. The 6800U is at its best in a 25-30W ultraportable. The 6800HS is very compelling in a 35W laptop, if you can find one in a thin&light rather than something chunkier with a dGPU.

50% efficiency improvement? If they achieve this, great. And I'd like to see that as a same task, clock for clock. Not just some optimisation of some esoteric non-real world runtime. Then call me impressed. But I'd like to see that on a whole platform, not just the CPU. I want a "nearly nil on idle" and "very efficient in use" rackable for my low-use webserver. No 3D needed.

Chrispy_There is only a single T14s for sale on the Lenovo website at a truly comical £2580 for specs you get on sub-£1000 models from everyone else, including most consumer Lenovos. It's a cruel joke.

I have a couple of Yoga 7 Slims. Crippled by cTDP that caps boost at a meagre 19W. There's a full fan mode that sounds like a hair dryer and allows 26W boost for a short 2-3 minute duration but it cannot maintain it so it's utterly useless for gaming and seems to back itself down to 22-23W at most.

Most of the 6800U reviews looking at performance vs cTDP agree that the IGP needs 28W to really stretch its legs. at 19W it's fighting the CPU cores for power, or being bottlenecked by the CPU it stole power from :\

I've never had good luck with yogas. Shame you guys cant get the rest of the T series.

Chrispy_Nice, but as mentioned, it's a disaster because their only 6000-series laptop is a 16" chungus for £1365 starting price. There is absolutely no shortage of similar size/weight Intel options of similar or higher quality, lower price, and with vastly superior Nvidia dGPUs in them; If I'm willing to carry around a larger, heavier laptop I might as well get a dGPU for my troubles. £1000 gets you a decent 15.6" or 16" option with a 3050Ti or 3060. Sure, they use more power than an Star Labs Starfighter, but they're comparable size, weight, and have 4x the GPU power of the Radeon 680M.

Um, sir, we need to have a chat on what a "chungus" is. That 16" machine is in the same body as a normal 15" ultrabook. It's nowhere near as heavy/thick as options with 3060s. It's also worth pointing out that those machines with 3060s often use plastics construction, not magnesium like business machines.

They also have a 14" model that will likely receive an update for ryzen 7000 once the "u" chips come out.

Chrispy_IMO, IGPs are the realm of thin 12-14" 1kg portables, that's why I mentioned lack of design wins in the form factor I want. The 6800U is at its best in a 25-30W ultraportable. The 6800HS is very compelling in a 35W laptop, if you can find one in a thin&light rather than something chunkier with a dGPU.

The 16" starfighter is 1.4kg, or just over 3 lbs. That's less then the 11" plastic chromebooks used in education. That's pretty light. The LG gram is 1.285 kg for the 16" model, and that is one of the lightest laptops out there. Even the 14" gram is still 1.2kg.

I think maybe your requirements are just a little unrealistic. In such small chassis you're not going to find many 28w APUs, all those intel models you pointed out will also be hamstrung by low TDP values. The other thing is if you get a 12-14" thin n light you're likely to end up with a sub 15w intel chip, like the m3 series. Do you guys not have the thinkpad x13? the hp envy x360? thinkbook 13s? thinkpad l13? thinkpad e13? I get not having choice, my ideal 14" machine will likely never exist, but dont you guys get any of the sub 14" AMD laptops? Can you import from the rest of europe?

TheinsanegamerNI've never had good luck with yogas. Shame you guys cant get the rest of the T series.

Um, sir, we need to have a chat on what a "chungus" is. That 16" machine is in the same body as a normal 15" ultrabook. It's nowhere near as heavy/thick as options with 3060s. It's also worth pointing out that those machines with 3060s often use plastics construction, not magnesium like business machines.

They also have a 14" model that will likely receive an update for ryzen 7000 once the "u" chips come out.

The 16" starfighter is 1.4kg, or just over 3 lbs. That's less then the 11" plastic chromebooks used in education. That's pretty light. The LG gram is 1.285 kg for the 16" model, and that is one of the lightest laptops out there. Even the 14" gram is still 1.2kg.

I think maybe your requirements are just a little unrealistic. In such small chassis you're not going to find many 28w APUs, all those intel models you pointed out will also be hamstrung by low TDP values. The other thing is if you get a 12-14" thin n light you're likely to end up with a sub 15w intel chip, like the m3 series. Do you guys not have the thinkpad x13? the hp envy x360? thinkbook 13s? thinkpad l13? thinkpad e13? I get not having choice, my ideal 14" machine will likely never exist, but dont you guys get any of the sub 14" AMD laptops? Can you import from the rest of europe?

I have this very same laptop. Bought it a couple years ago because I needed a proper 2 in 1 for my digital artwork. Has a Ryzen 7 3700U in it, but Vega graphics so I can't play PC games on it, just old emulator games. But I can do everything else I need on it, and I knew going in it wasn't a "gaming" laptop, so I can't complain much. Plus it really comes in handy when my rig is down for maintenance or will be out of commission for a while.

Chrispy_I've lived in hope since Early 2020 for a decent Ryzen APU that can do lightweight modern gaming without a dGPU.

I had Renoir, it was underwhelming old Vega architecture hampered by DDR4 rather than LPDDR4 in so many models.
I have a few 6800U Lenovo models at work, they are choked by lousy bios and pathetic cooling - with so few other options with 6800U in the UK, I've written off RDNA2 for now.

128xe2 doesn't have to be amazing, it just has to be comparable to the 12CU RDNA2 IGP in Ryzen 6000-series. AMD's product is excellent but the very limited number of design wins mean that there aren't (m)any good options available to me and Intel is just a powerhouse in terms of sales and design wins. Every major brand will have 10+ different configs in various form factors and all the stupid no-name Amazon/AliExpress OEMs will throw a few hats into the ring too.

So yeah, Battlemage IGP doesn't have to be the clear winner, it just has to be good enough and widely-available. It'll take that over "theoretically better, but not available to me in the format I want, or at a reasonable price"

Since Llano launched I've been waiting for that 'killer' GPU centric APU from AMD and I'm still waiting, It would be funny to me if the first GPU centric APU I bought was an Intel product...