BwazeAs I see it, Nvidia right now doesn't even need to sell gaming cards. AIB partners do. But with the crypto craze rhey could cash in, because miners needed gaming cards - any cards at any price, when they were desperate enough.

AI craze is different. Almost nobody needs gaming cards - except where there are limitations on selling AI accelerators, and even that is very limited.

So I'm a bit sorry for all AIB partners now. I bet we'll even see prices go much higher than MSRP - because all the cards will be produced in very small numbers, Nvidia has already said it's dedicating production to AI.

And no gamer will be buying the overpriced cards, and AI people don't need them.

And suddenly EVGAs decision in September 2022 will make perfect sense.

Is EVGA even a thing these days.

EasoSo about closer to 1k here in Latvia for the stupidly long named 4070 TI Super.
Great.
Not.

But I have no choice I guess -.-

Yeah you do, you don't buy. Or you get a cheap second hander until the market is back to some idea of sanity.

BwazeAs I see it, Nvidia right now doesn't even need to sell gaming cards. AIB partners do. But with the crypto craze rhey could cash in, because miners needed gaming cards - any cards at any price, when they were desperate enough.

AI craze is different. Almost nobody needs gaming cards - except where there are limitations on selling AI accelerators, and even that is very limited.

So I'm a bit sorry for all AIB partners now. I bet we'll even see prices go much higher than MSRP - because all the cards will be produced in very small numbers, Nvidia has already said it's dedicating production to AI.

And no gamer will be buying the overpriced cards, and AI people don't need them.

And suddenly EVGAs decision in September 2022 will make perfect sense.

At least we have a superb DLSS and RT push to show for it eh, once Nvidia has destroyed a vibrant market.
With the help of a special kind of naive customer base.

The more you buy...

ScircuraI suspect MSRP is as irrelevant now as it was with the 3000 series launch. The market has established price/performance and it’s unlikely that will change suddenly when these cards go on sale. More likely, these cards’ cost will depend entirely on where they fall on that existing curve. I expect Nvidia will make sure to trickle out the Super chips so as not to depress existing prices. Same price maintenance strategy Jensen’s been touting on earnings calls every quarter.

Normally, yes. But with this gen, Nvidia was happy to just limit supply, so everything still sells at MSRP (or more). Whatever they won't sell to gamers, can be directed at AI operators and sold for more.

DavenChoice will be limited and prices will remain high as long as everyone continues to buy just Nvidia.

Yeah, well, AMD cannot compete, not directly at least (yes, I do want the Ray Tracing) and Intel is still in baby steps.

Why_Me21% VAT says Latvians were never going to get good prices on these cards.

Basically default tax in most of Europe and the MSRP IIRC is with it included. Also USA prices will get their tax added later anyway, even if it is smaller (unlesss I am mistaking something).

Vayra86Yeah you do, you don't buy. Or you get a cheap second hander until the market is back to some idea of sanity.

I have waited a year, actually even more. Patience has limits and me ol' 1070 Ti just cant do all what I want it to.
And buying second hand GPU is something I simply do not want to risk or spend time with.

Scummy Nvidia never learns huh :shadedshu:

bugNvidia was happy to just limit supply, so everything still sells at MSRP (or more).

This gen? It's been a tactic for far too long, since at least Pascal IIRC.

EasoI have waited a year, actually even more. Patience has limits and me ol' 1070 Ti just cant do all what I want it to.
And buying second hand GPU is something I simply do not want to risk or spend time with.

Speaking from experience, if you buy 2nd hand locally from individuals that aren't in the business of selling cards, its problem free. An honest GPU is what it is, it won't suddenly break, not a single one has in my history of buying and reselling these cards. Its a super reliable product, if it works, it keeps working, you just have to be sure it wasn't tampered with.

bugBut with this gen, Nvidia was happy to just limit supply, so everything still sells at MSRP (or more). Whatever they won't sell to gamers, can be directed at AI operators and sold for more.

I think the days where GPUs were sold way under MSRP at the end of their cycle are truly gone - because that threw a bad light on new generation when it came out, and reviewers had to remind us we have to compare with prices at release two years ago, not the current prices in shops. And that was before the new Jensen's law, where you get worse price / performance with new releases, not better.

More like Super lame... I don't want anything to do with this generation. $800 for a 294mm² die? AMD's 6950XT is $550 at Microcenter today.

About what I expected, which is still too much.

EasoYeah, well, AMD cannot compete, not directly at least (yes, I do want the Ray Tracing) and Intel is still in baby steps.

AMD competes just fine and has ray tracing. As long as customers blindly buy one brand, don’t ever expect that brand to do the ‘right’ thing and make its products more affordable. And it will only get worse and worse.

Enjoy your future $2000 Geforce RTX 6070 that offers the same performance as the 4090 today. Your kids didn’t need to go to college anyway.

People. This is a super release. Expect 10% more perf for 5% more money, after waiting a year. 5090 hits in Q4.

I am more interrested in what AMD is going to do. They need to push 7900XT below $600 at this point. 7900 series are not selling well at all. 7800XT needs to be 449 or even cheaper as well.

Radeon 8000 won't get any high-end offerings and 5090 and 5080 are already out next year at this time. Will AMD have a counter? I doubt it. And it probably won't matter anyway. AMD needs to forget about competing in the high-end market. Nvidia already owns it. They need to put out good value GPUs with raster-focus and improve FSR and AFMF to match DLSS, DLAA and Frame Gen or close. If they can, AMD has little R&D funds to work with, especially when it comes to GPU features.

Ray Tracing? Forget about it at this point. Upscaling is going to matter more over the next years. Upscaling and Frame Gen is features that people actually want. Developers embraced it too. Ray Tracing not so much, thats why Nvidia is paying them to implement it (luckily this means DLSS, DLAA, Reflex as well, for RTX owners). So yeah, RT don't really matter much, atleast not if it means cutting your performance by 100-200% or even more if you use AMD ;) Path Tracing on AMD hardware? Get out of here...

yeap. gonna skip this "refresh" until they get a bigger price cut when the RTX50 Series cards rolls around.

Tsukiyomi91yeap. gonna skip this "refresh" until they get a bigger price cut when the RTX50 Series cards rolls around.

You expect 5000 series to be cheap? This will depend solely on AMD :laugh:

I would not be surprised to see RTX 5090 rolling out at 1999-2499 dollars.

4090 is closer to 1800 than 1600 right now.

Maybe we will get a 4080 Ti or 4090 Ti soon :roll:

AMD isn't really commited to their graphics section. Sure, they're investing, keeping in close second place, but not really inovating, and not competing for bigger market share - when Nvidia makes a blunder and puts prices above what gamers want to pay, AMD quickly follows. They are just more focussed on CPU, and especially server market, everything else follows way behind. So bigger market share, larger volunes of sold graphics cards would just eat away production numbers from items with higher margins.

I will only buy an expensive GPU (i.e. 4090) if it makes me money (no crypto) through my work. Since I am in web developemnt, this need has not arisen yet. If it comes down to AI and it is needed, and it produces tangible benefits then yes.

I stopped gaming 5 years ago (now 48) since there is simply no time anymore. Besides lots of work that also requires constant studying and reading to stay current (Web development), I like working out, gardening, going out with my wife, spent time with the kids (12 & 16), listening to music, reading, travelling and heaps of other activities.......Really where do people find all this time for gaming? Maybe younger than me I guess.

Now, I love building a watercooled PC with cutting edge hardware even just to play around and get impressed with how technology has advanced. But needing to spent thousands of dollars every now and again just to occasionally have some temporary fan, no. With these prices, I simply lost my interest anymore and prefer to spend money on things that last longer (plus the kids preparation for the university costs a lot). The return on invstement is simply not there anymore for me.

A top of the line Monitor, PC Case, Watercooling Systme, Desk, Speakers, etc that last yes........for a GPU NO! Not anymore - I am just fine with my watercooled 1080Ti and no gaming.

Tsukiyomi91yeap. gonna skip this "refresh" until they get a bigger price cut when the RTX50 Series cards rolls around.

Doesn't it cross your mind that launching new models on top of existing chips is a sign that a new generation is not in the plans for the near future?

Whether due to capacity allocation in more profitable products, or due to an inability to maintain profit margins with the current costs of new processes, this is what I see.

If any product from the 5000 series reaches the market, it will only be the top-tier model priced above $2000 and will not impact the current pricing in any way.

Tsukiyomi91yeap. gonna skip this "refresh" until they get a bigger price cut when the RTX50 Series cards rolls around.

Continue to buy Nvidia and only the rich will be able to afford PC discrete GPUs. That will just leave consoles for the rest of us. In fact that is probably the plan. Nvidia only releases $1000+ ultra high margin cards while AMD provides sub $1000 consoles.

Thanks Nvidia brand loyalists for destroying my DIY PC hobby that I love so much. And for what, irrelevant ray tracing of background water and 10% lower gen ras. I just can’t believe this is happening! Crypto was bad enough and AI doesn’t look like its going to improve things much. But just buying because the Nvidia logo is on the box is worst of all.

Yeah, better hurry and decide which will be your last gaming GPU:

2020, RTX 3080 - $700
2022, RTX 4080 - $1200
2024, RTX 5080 - $2040
2026, RTX 6080 - $3468
2028, RTX 7080 - $5896
2030, RTX 8080 - $10022
2032, RTX 9080 - $17038
2034, RTX 1080 - $28965

BwazeYeah, better hurry and decide which will be your last gaming GPU:

2020, RTX 3080 - $700
2022, RTX 4080 - $1200
2024, RTX 5080 - $2040
2026, RTX 6080 - $3468
2028, RTX 7080 - $5896
2030, RTX 8080 - $10022
2032, RTX 9080 - $17038
2034, RTX 1080 - $28965

Before the Nvidia cult we had decent pricing.

280 $430
480 $500
580 $500
680 $500
780 $500
980 $550
1080 $600 - cult forms
2080 $700
3080 $800 (8960 CUDA version)
4080 $1200

The media didn’t do us any favors either by not dispelling the AMD bad driver myth that was perpetuated by non-AMD card owners trying to elevate Nvidia.

BwazeYep, the "EU Common Market" got royally shafted by Nvidia, as far as Founders Editions are concerned. Even the resellers that somehow get some shipments of FE cards (like Notebooksbilliger.de) only get very small numbers, and are really strict about only selling in their country (Germany) - going as far as banning all resending options like MailBoxDe and others...

They will ship it outside if you're buying as B2B customer, that's how I bought my 3080 Ti FE in late 2022. I also believe that Nvidia now supports more countries than in 2022, in Poland their site has purchase option for FE variants for some time now that is being handled by X-kom via nvidia.x-kom.pl:

You're still limited to 1 unit.

Would be great if we had some global sale numbers. :wtf: Right now Nvidia isn't moving a lot compared to AMD (in Germany). Hot cake = 7800XT.

TechEpiphanyYT (Twitter)

DavenBefore the Nvidia cult we had decent pricing.

280 $430
480 $500
580 $500
680 $500
780 $500
980 $550
1080 $600 - cult forms
2080 $700
3080 $800 (8960 CUDA version)
4080 $1200

The media didn’t do us any favors either by not dispelling the AMD bad driver myth that was perpetuated by non-AMD card owners trying to elevate Nvidia.

where did the Titan's show up in this? that's the real problem, that cause insane prices.

MarsM4NWould be great if we had some global sale numbers. :wtf: Right now Nvidia isn't moving a lot compared to AMD (in Germany). Hot cake = 7800XT.

TechEpiphanyYT (Twitter)

Why? In quarterly revenue Nvidia showed a record income from Gaming sector for the last quarter. And they have got a court permit to shuffle their income numbers as they see fit. So it does not matter if gamers don't really buy their cards in any number, if Steam survey doesn't show Ada cards in any relevant numbers, if Mindfactory sales show abysmal sales... In the end only one thing counts, revenue.

BwazeAMD isn't really commited to their graphics section. Sure, they're investing, keeping in close second place, but not really inovating, and not competing for bigger market share - when Nvidia makes a blunder and puts prices above what gamers want to pay, AMD quickly follows. They are just more focussed on CPU, and especially server market, everything else follows way behind. So bigger market share, larger volunes of sold graphics cards would just eat away production numbers from items with higher margins.

This is exactly why. Making dGPUs for AMD just eat away at their output at TSMC and they earn more from CPUs and APUs.

GPU development and production is still important for AMD, but they don't need to have high-end offerings for what they do; iGPUs, APUs (including Console APUs) etc. It is simply not important for them. They officially said this, when they said 7900XTX was 4080 counter and not a 4090 counter. They left the entuisiast market.

High-end dGPU is a niche market for AMD and probably always will be. Name one high-end AMD offering that sold well in recent years?
AMD have always sold mostly low to mid-end GPUs. Research and development is very costly and high-end GPUs makes little sense for AMD. This is why they want to go MCM so they can scale their offerings much easier, without ramping up costs like crazy for high-end.


I bet AMDs goal with Radeon 8000 is just to use 5nm still, while using 3nm for CPUs as fast as possible (when Apple is done with it) - Zen 5. Cheap GPUs with good enough raster perf is what is needed to drive AMDs GPU marketshare forward again. Along with FSR and AFMF improvements.

AMD can't afford to go 3nm too soon. Too costly. Nvidia will be able to. Going from 4/5nm to 3nm for Nvidia will also mean price increases on their own. Probably around 50% more per wafer.

However Nvidia rules the gaming GPU market while not even focussing on the market. They have full focus on AI and Enterprise and this won't change for years. They even scaled back gaming GPU production to make AI/Enterprise chips. I think we won't see a flood of 4000 SUPER cards on release because of this.


TSMC increased production costs alot over the last years + Inflation. This is not only Nvidia increasing prices. Look at AMD prices today as well. They are generally not cheap, mostly because TSMC wants their cut. TSMC knows AMD relies 100% on TSMC. Remember how poorly Ryzan was prior to TSMC? GloFo 12nm was trash compared to even Intel 14nm.

In a few years, Intel is probably back in the lead with 20A/18A and will be open for business. I don't think TSMC can retain their lead for much longer. Maybe AMD can use Intel for their chips then :laugh:

But yeah, process improvement + inflation + shipping and higher development and production costs is what is driving up prices. This is true in all markets really. Expect hardware to get more and more expensive, especially in the high-end.

I predict RTX 5090 to be 1999 but I would not be surprised if its 2499. AMD has nothing to counter it. Just like 4090. AMD barely could counter 3090/3090 Ti even tho Nvidia used a cheap and mediocre process node in Samsung 8nm thats closer to 10nm TSMC in reality and yet Nvidia still won. Superior architecture is the reason.

AMD probably paid twice as much per 7nm wafer compared to Nvidia using Samsung 8nm, if not more. Nvidia did not need the best node to beat AMD.

lasIn a few years, Intel is probably back in the lead with 20A/18A and will be open for business. I don't think TSMC can retain their lead for much longer. Maybe AMD can use Intel for their chips then :laugh:

This doesn't make much sense. Right now everyone is paying all the very expensive process upgrades for TSMC, upgrades that are allegedly rising astronomically with every new process. So how can anyone just leapfrog into cutting edge process without figuring out intermediate steps?

I believe it would take a severe industry crysis to end the TSMC supremacy. But that's not so unimaginable, reasons could be political (Chinese don't even have to blocade or invade Taiwan, just stop exporting crucial materials and components), caused by natural disasters, or just market response to too high cost.