Vya DomusIt's not just that, most laptops still ship with Intel CPUs.

Also, most PC's sold are laptops. I expected a bigger difference between AMD's desktop and mobile share.

www.google.com/search?q=agesa+problems+techpowerup&oq=agesa+problems+techpowerup#ip=1

Hopefully their epyc/server systems are doing better....

Darmok N JaladI’m still waiting for the day that I get issued an AMD machine at work. I think Intel still really has the corporate world locked up.

That is me with my work laptop.

I'd prefer an ARM laptop for work. Need the amazing battery life and low temps. The current crop of x86 laptops should be called crotch scorchers.

Event HorizonI'd prefer an ARM laptop for work. Need the amazing battery life and low temps. The current crop of x86 laptops should be called crotch scorchers.

You're using it wrong.

Event HorizonI'd prefer an ARM laptop for work. Need the amazing battery life and low temps. The current crop of x86 laptops should be called crotch scorchers.

AMD doesn't lie like intel, so a 15W tdp doesn't actually use 45-65W like intel.
They run cool as can be.

P4-630Companies want stability/reliability and also they don't want to have issues with BIOS'es and no beta BIOS'es...

Also there is the old mantra of

"No one got fired for Ordering IBM Intel"

Many people in high positions dont want to rock the boat for gains they cant see/understand. Also its only in very recent times that AMD penetration into the main SIs have been on par with Intel. Dell and HP servers are actually pretty hard to get an AMD equipped version vs an Intel option

HP:

Dell:

Random_UserExactly. Server space aside, even with stubbornness of many many people, and slow mindset change (there are almost entire countries, that prefer to stick to old 'always reliable intel/nVidia' stereotype), the market cap and penetration during and after Zen 2 should have been massive. It was Sandy bridge of AMD all over again, but this time it somehow didn't shake the disparity. At least not everywhere.
And I'm not going to mention various Ryzen-specific issues, because intel had them as well, even during and after SB domination and Bulldozer collapse.


This is both great and worrying. Great, because AMD sells all CPUs they have, with almost as less unsold stock as possible. Thus reduces the expenses significantly. But worrying, because, if intel won't get their heads out their ... place, and start making competitive products, AMD's domination might end up worse than intel's one.

Why? Because intel was always OEM oriented first, and then consumer. They make tons of products, thus makes them cheaper to produce and distribute through reliable channels. And if needed they can be sold at lower prices with lower profits, but still be sold.
AMD on the other hand, has no big stock, and the product supply is scarcer. So if they would feel like the time has come, they can rise the prices, and it would look justified. They already tried it with Zen 3, and milked people for a good half-year/year (depending or region) during Cov and after. So...

As of factories, as I've said before... it maybe has sense for AMD to have own fab again, if they are so inclined into AI, as the time matters. nVidia won't dominate this market forever, and when/if custom ASICs will come, they will hurt not only nVidia, but all GPU market as well. So since TSMC's capacities are filled with nVidia allocations, AMD is wasting time, by waiting their own orders fullfilled. Not to mention the ever rising price growth for TSMC's nodes, and possible draught,s earthquakes, etc.

If I was AMD, I would take advantage of the Chips Act and do a collaboration with TSMC to build a Fab on the Continental US.

I remember when EPYC was first released and that actually excited more than Ryzen (even though I knew that I would never own an EPYC CPU) because I knew that it was key to AMD distancing itself from insolvency which would provide the R&D funds for more innovations in both CPUs and GPUs. Client PCs are just the icing on the cake for semiconductor companies like AMD while the data centre side is their bread-and-butter.

I look at it almost the way I look at a musical group. Client PCs are like radio play, they're essentially low-profit advertising. Data centres are like album and concert sales. One of the things that hurt AMD the most in the early 2000s was the fact that, outside of enthusiasts, nobody knew or trusted the name AMD. AMD was like an unknown band trying to sell albums and fill concerts, which doesn't work very well. AMD used to do extremely well in the data centre with Opteron but, when Intel pulled so far ahead of AMD with regard to power efficiency, that was the death knell for Opteron.

When people saw what Zen could do, it prompted companies to adopt it for their servers. Once it was known just how amazing EPYC CPUs were, things just started snowballing. Then when the US government chose AMD EPYC and Radeon Instinct for the Frontier Supercomputer, that would be a huge test and it blew every other supercomputer on Earth out of the water. It out-processes the second place supercomputer, the Xeon-based Aurora by close to 60%. The next monster exascale supercomputer, El Capitan, will also be using EPYC and Radeon Instinct. It will surpass Frontier, which means that that two most powerful supercomputers on Earth will be powered by EPYC and Instinct.

Things like that are what drive interest in your product because it means that you have the best products. The US Government has an essentially unlimited budget and if they choose you, well, it sends a very potent message through the entire industry.

I'm shocked the gap is still this big.

Six_TimesAs the fan boys go wild, and the Saudi prince celebrates.

AMD gaining marketshare is OBJECTIVELY good for all consumers and anyone into x86 computing.

P4-630Companies want stability/reliability and also they don't want to have issues with BIOS'es and no beta BIOS'es...

Do you have anything tangible to prove this is the vase? Or are you leaning on an old.myth?

mamaI'm shocked the gap is still this big.

I was too, but then the other day I was talking to a coworker who is in the market for a laptop....he is your typical consumer, and his thoughts on AMD was thst it was a second-choice, inferior product. This is rhe majority of consumers and unfortunately not only do they not educate themselves, but salespeople at places like Best Buy do not educate them either.

As far as the .majority of consumers are concerned, AMD doesn't even exist....it's not even a thought to be entertained....to them Intel is literally synonymous with "laptop"....and that's a very hard thing to change.

Avro ArrowOne of the things that hurt AMD the most in the early 2000s was the fact that, outside of enthusiasts, nobody knew or trusted the name AMD.

This is still hapoening to this very day, and is partly a reason the gap is still huge.
But, can't say the Athlon, for example was unknown outside enthusiasts and OCcrowd. From personal experience, Barton was the next OC potential after Celeron 633. And both were kind of cheaper solutions, compared to Pentium's exstortion level prices. And even for non-OC people, Athlon was much more interesting product, as it was much more affordable, and had almost free bonus MHz.
And then was Athlon and Athlon X2, which undercut the cooler melting P4, and especially Pentium D, at every corner, while being the better performants at the same time.

Avro ArrowThe US Government has an essentially unlimited budget and if they choose you, well, it sends a very potent message through the entire industry.

But with a serious catch, of being forced to include even more backdoors, which leading to horrible vulnuerabilities, that won't be ever fixed or patched, due to obvious reasons.

AnarchoPrimitivDo you have anything tangible to prove this is the vase? Or are you leaning on an old.myth?

Have we forgotten the early days of Zen, when getting memory to work was an adventure on its own? No longer an issue afaict since EXPO, but it wasn't fun before that.
But again, the reason AMD can't capture market share is they can't actually build the chips in large enough quantities.

TheGuruStudAMD doesn't lie like intel, so a 15W tdp doesn't actually use 45-65W like intel.
They run cool as can be.

If you can burst to 60W for a second and finish a job that would take 5-6 seconds to finish at 15W, you're saving power. Just saying.

And if you really don't want high power draw, just pick a model that actually lets you control the TDP in the BIOS and cap it to whatever you like. Yes, cTDP is a thing, but manufacturers prefer to set it as high as their cooling solution allows and then disable the control in the BIOS :(

AMD need their own fabs, but it will never happen, they just don't have the funds to do it. People poke fun at Intel woes with its fabs, but at least they have them, and they have the cash to buy production from TSMC. At some point Intel will fix the woes with their fabs and that will make AMDs problems worse.

evernessinceMost public institutions I've done security assessments for have a contract with Intel to get cheaper prices on Intel products if they agree to only purchase Intel for their x86 needs. They'll allow chromebooks but the computer lab must use Intel processors. There are times where I almost hope ARM takes over x86's domain so that someone can finally put a stop to Intel's nonsense.

Pretty sure that's illegal... And ironically that's one of the reasons why Intel lost, antitrust lol.

mamaI'm shocked the gap is still this big.

Alas the world is full of sheeple. Why do you think Toyota sells so many batshit boring unremarkable cars!

thesmokingmanPretty sure that's illegal... And ironically that's one of the reasons why Intel lost, antitrust lol.

When the reward is greater than the punishment, it's not illegal but merely a cost of doing business.

Intel had a decade of complete monopoly over the x86 market due to their anti-competitive practices and it still commands a vast majority of the market today. They wasted all that time making barely any improvements while shoveling out excuses like "TIM is better than solder" and 'performance improvements on x86 over 10% are impossible'. People actually believed that BS. Intel wasted so much time and money pursuing other markets like SSDs and NICs, which only diluted their company focus.

Intel still of which has yet to even pay the fine. It was dropped in 2022 and re-imposed in 2023 for a 1/3rd of the original value, of which to date still has yet to be paid. I wouldn't even call the amount in today's dollars a slap on the wrist, it's proof positive that companies should be encouraged to play unfairly because even if you do eventually have to pay by the time you do the amount will be so small as to be irrelevant. Until there's some serious consequences, any business would have to be crazy not to break the law.

P4-630Companies want stability/reliability and also they don't want to have issues with BIOS'es and no beta BIOS'es...

Ironic statement given the current Intel instability issues.

Overall CPU stability / reliability is a solved issue that shouldn't be a concern outside of edge cases like Intel's current stability problem.

P4-630www.google.com/search?q=agesa+problems+techpowerup&oq=agesa+problems+techpowerup#ip=1

Hopefully their epyc/server systems are doing better....

I'm looking at your linked search results and most of those entries have nothing to do with BIOS issues, just BIOS updates. If your point was that AMD releases too many BIOS updates, I'd like to point out that most Intel business products (like those sold through Dell) have BIOS updates monthly. Mind you, I don't believe leading a search result to a specific conclusion is a faithful representation of anything. It's like asking someone why they robbed a bank without ascertaining whether they are even a suspect. It's a one sided statement that ignores everything else in order to lead a conversation to a specific conclusion You could search anything problem and it will come up with results.

FoulOnWhiteAMD need their own fabs, but it will never happen, they just don't have the funds to do it. People poke fun at Intel woes with its fabs, but at least they have them, and they have the cash to buy production from TSMC. At some point Intel will fix the woes with their fabs and that will make AMDs problems worse.

LOL, Intel's FABs are separate entity and are in the business to make money, AMD will one day probably be a customer and even Pat with all his hubris said he would welcome them as a customer. Luckily most rational business don't act like fanboys and trolls.

Minus InfinityLOL, Intel's FABs are separate entity and are in the business to make money, AMD will one day probably be a customer and even Pat with all his hubris said he would welcome them as a customer. Luckily most rational business don't act like fanboys and trolls.

Ironically, dumping their fabs helped save them from bankruptcy.

Random_UserThis is still hapoening to this very day, and is partly a reason the gap is still huge.
But, can't say the Athlon, for example was unknown outside enthusiasts and OCcrowd. From personal experience, Barton was the next OC potential after Celeron 633. And both were kind of cheaper solutions, compared to Pentium's exstortion level prices. And even for non-OC people, Athlon was much more interesting product, as it was much more affordable, and had almost free bonus MHz.
And then was Athlon and Athlon X2, which undercut the cooler melting P4, and especially Pentium D, at every corner, while being the better performants at the same time.

But with a serious catch, of being forced to include even more backdoors, which leading to horrible vulnuerabilities, that won't be ever fixed or patched, due to obvious reasons.

The Athlon/Athlon XP era was the prime time of Intel's anti competitive practices when it was at its worst. I was there at the time doing business in another part of the globe and you'd be surprised at the sheer reach of intel, they were everywhere. So AMD never got the market share they should have had in that era which coupled with a few other silly decisions hurt them later.

They literally had to do the whole mindset switch after Zen all over again because of all the failures since Athlon 64. This is not against any of you still rocking a Phenom x6 1090T, that was the last good AMD chip till Zen 1. So it takes years of them being competitive for the mindset to switch en masse.

evernessinceWhen the reward is greater than the punishment, it's not illegal but merely a cost of doing business.

Intel had a decade of complete monopoly over the x86 market due to their anti-competitive practices and it still commands a vast majority of the market today. They wasted all that time making barely any improvements while shoveling out excuses like "TIM is better than solder" and 'performance improvements on x86 over 10% are impossible'. People actually believed that BS. Intel wasted so much time and money pursuing other markets like SSDs and NICs, which only diluted their company focus.

Intel still of which has yet to even pay the fine. It was dropped in 2022 and re-imposed in 2023 for a 1/3rd of the original value, of which to date still has yet to be paid. I wouldn't even call the amount in today's dollars a slap on the wrist, it's proof positive that companies should be encouraged to play unfairly because even if you do eventually have to pay by the time you do the amount will be so small as to be irrelevant. Until there's some serious consequences, any business would have to be crazy not to break the law.



Ironic statement given the current Intel instability issues.

Overall CPU stability / reliability is a solved issue that shouldn't be a concern outside of edge cases like Intel's current stability problem.



I'm looking at your linked search results and most of those entries have nothing to do with BIOS issues, just BIOS updates. If your point was that AMD releases too many BIOS updates, I'd like to point out that most Intel business products (like those sold through Dell) have BIOS updates monthly. Mind you, I don't believe leading a search result to a specific conclusion is a faithful representation of anything. It's like asking someone why they robbed a bank without ascertaining whether they are even a suspect. It's a one sided statement that ignores everything else in order to lead a conversation to a specific conclusion You could search anything problem and it will come up with results.

Yeah that fine intel got is one of the jokes of the era. Almost two eras now and if anything it should go up. And he's an obvious troll just ignore him, he got no responses in his last troll post and his second post reeks of desperation. I clicked it and found no real problems and he's posting it at a time when there's an obvious ongoing problem in the intel camp

Well Intel is like the clown of tech world atm LOL. Good that AMD is taking marketshare away from Intel.

If we talk about stocks, AMD is worth 2x as much as Intel right now, making Intel effectively the underdog.

nguyenWell Intel is like the clown of tech world atm LOL. Good that AMD is taking marketshare away from Intel.

If we talk about stocks, AMD is worth 2x as much as Intel right now, making Intel effectively the underdog.

Tell that to the 76% more people using Intel.

FoulOnWhiteTell that to the 76% more people using Intel.

Tell them what? Tell them to upgrade to AMD platform, despite it making practically no difference?

I wonder what Intel did in Q3 of 2022...

AMD needs a clear home run with Zen 5, both on price and performance, Zen 4 was slightly disappointing on both fronts, and only the x3D parts outperformed Intel in gaming, but were initially vastly overpriced, as the AM5 platform still is to this day. Their server chips seem to do their own talking though.

I have four devices and all of them are with Ryzen.
Ryzen 5 2500U
Ryzen 9 5900X
Ryzen 9 3950X
Ryzen 5 4500

Cool, quiet and fast.

stimpy88I wonder what Intel did in Q3 of 2022...

I guess the same - bribery, shenanigans...

Random_UserAnd sadly will in future. Despite AMD's products being clearly superior in every aspect, and should have been OEM/vendor preference, instead of outdated (not all) and hot intel solutions, which currently are incapable to run without dGPU's, that are obviously from nVidia. The WintelVidia trio going strong for the two decades long.
Unfortunately, this might be not the case of intel bribing the laptop/desktop PC vendors/OEMs, but simply, due to availability. Intel simply has both supply and factories, as AMD sadly have none. Doesn't matter how much AMD tease people with their astonishing products, and that intel has hot turds, if intel can supply these turds in dozens of millions, and AMD simply can't.

And also, despite all the successs, even more, it's exactly the best time use the tide, to start getting into own ARM design (as K12 ARM might be very outdated).
Having own fab or two, would be also not the bad thing. As it eventually might be used for many ow in-house projects, as well as the ones that being designed and made in cooperation with other companies, like Samsung, etc. This is surely extremely expensive endeavor, but AMD then always can be fab contractor.

Or at least if AMD get in talks with GloFo, once again, with CHIPs act can fund these two, instead of blue behemoth.

This.

In a normal, just world, things would be opposite. AMD with 90% market share, and intel in deep debts because of fines imposed onto them by the Regulators.

But it is like forbidden in many large corporations and companies to even think about anything non-shintel. Taboo.