DahitaYou're insulted by a $20 high end graphic card? My bet is you would buy it. Point is, gamers, like everyone else, are looking for a good deal. If this card performs as well as its competitor for $20 less, they will buy it. If their straight competitor was the 5070 Ti, even a $730 MSRP would make sense.

No, they won't, and no, it wouldn't. Nobody in their right mind would buy a 9070 XT over a 5070 Ti for a $20 discount if the performance is the same. You're ignoring that AMD has already done something similar with RDNA 3 and lost market share, so this doesn't actually work. You're also ignoring all the other value adds that an NVIDIA GPU has.

I would be insulted if AMD prices it that high. The 7900 GRE has a larger die and is priced at $550 and GDDR6 has only gotten cheaper.

DahitaThen you do not understand the concept of supply and demand. A $690 "mid tier" card that actually performs like the top end tier of the previous generation is not a bad price. It's actually less expensive than the 2070SUPER that I bought for $580 5 years ago. There's nothing shocking and the consumer will only adjust to what is available. As we saw earlier, even a 7700XT is not available below $400. Your market price reference is not adjusted to today's reality.

No, you don't. What's driving demand in the GPU market? Nobody really "needs" a new GPU for gaming anymore because a lot of these new games that require them are either not worth playing or unplayable, and I'd argue most people don't care about raytracing, either. The 2000 series from NVIDIA was also trash pricewise so it's a poor comparison.

And for all that talk about not ignoring the competition, you really ignored the competition on this one. The 9070 XT at $690 is a bad price because the 5070 Ti at $750 exists. It's also a bad price because it won't meet AMD's stated objectives this generation, which is "increase market share". Which necessitates lower pricing.

Macro DeviceDear Joe Public,

We genuinely do not care.

Sincerely,
AMD

Dear AMD,

0% MARKETSHARE LMAO RIP BOZO

Sincerely,
Joe Public

JustBenchingWhat don't you get? Nvidia holds stock back because....because...oh, because they don't want to sell cards. It's all an evil mastermind plan with the goal of....the goal of....uhm, Im not sure what the goal is, but they are doing it. Trust me.

It's so AMD prices their cards poorly because of temporary retail pricing so they can either flood the market afterwards or trickle it out and focus even more on datacenter. If AMD prices poorly it's the latter, they don't want to be a total monopoly and go bust after all, although that's very unlikely to happen.

Vayra86So... what do you think needs to happen here to compensate?

The MSRP target needs to be lowered.

TBF msrp is useless if there isn't enough stock. You can have an msrp of 199$ but if there isn't enough stock to satisfy demand prices will skyrocket. The only difference is whos pocketing the money, if MSRP is high it's amd / nvidia making bank, if msrp is low it's aibs and stores.

JustBenchingTBF msrp is useless if there isn't enough stock. You can have an msrp of 199$ but if there isn't enough stock to satisfy demand prices will skyrocket. The only difference is whos pocketing the money, if MSRP is high it's amd / nvidia making bank, if msrp is low it's aibs and stores.

If MSRP is high, its going to get much higher and everyone's making bank except the end users, until the market corrects it ergo demand sinks because price too high.

If MSRP is lowered, that lowered price will trickle down to the sale price, it always does. Because if stores mark up too much, competitors will undercut them and move product. That is what markets should do and how they should work. It works in markets without a duopoly or de-facto monopoly, because there are more suppliers, too.

What really happened here is Nvidia moved from pushing chips to AIBs into making their own FEs, and making their own enterprise setups, and everyone is paying that price. AMD just copied the pricing behaviour without having the business. It really is what I just identified it as: companies that have markets on lockdown and are happily slicing the pie the way they feel like doing. A market, in other words, that is terminally ill.

Ye olde logic no longer applies.

Vayra86If MSRP is lowered, that lowered price will trickle down to the sale price, it always does. Because if stores mark up too much, competitors will undercut them and move product. That is what markets should do and how they should work.

That's assuming there is stock. Take a look at the 5090. No one will undercut nobody cause it makes no sense to. The moment a card hits the shelves it sells regardless of the price, why would any store undercut anyone? Of course there is a saturation point, I don't think anyone will buy a 5090 at 5k$+, but high end models already sell at close to 4k (!!)

So imo stock comes first, msrp second. The end users are never making bank, we exist to be fleeced , your only choice is whos doing the fleecing :p

JustBenchingThat's assuming there is stock. Take a look at the 5090. No one will undercut nobody cause it makes no sense to. The moment a card hits the shelves it sells regardless of the price, why would any store undercut anyone? Of course there is a saturation point, I don't think anyone will buy a 5090 at 5k$+, but high end models already sell at close to 4k (!!)

So imo stock comes first, msrp second.

That should be a temporary thing. Now look at Ada. There's stock. RDNA3? Stocked just fine for over a year.

Vayra86That should be a temporary thing. Now look at Ada. There's stock.

I really don't know this time around, are we ever going to see 5xxx in large numbers within the year? Cause a year from now it kinda stops mattering, not a lot of people would buy high end products 1 year after launch, cause the value is just not there with the new generation being "around" the corner. Same applies to amd, I don't have high hopes that there will be lots of stock but I pray im wrong.

JustBenchingI really don't know this time around, are we ever going to see 5xxx in large numbers within the year? Cause a year from now it kinda stops mattering, not a lot of people would buy high end products 1 year after launch, cause the value is just not there with the new generation being "around" the corner. Same applies to amd, I don't have high hopes that there will be lots of stock but I pray im wrong.

Might very well remain low quantities indeed, especially if these issues keep popping up surrounding the questionable state of actually sold GPUs. It all points to massive shortage - either artificial or true doesn't even matter. Fact is, we already knew Nvidia was booked for the whole year - obviously something they actively pursued.

Still though the fact Ada was indeed on shelves but still kept at MSRP is also telling. The initial 4080 was certainly available... but was not getting bought at MSRP. The initial 7900XT, much the same. XTX was available for many months at MSRP. This tells you that even though there is high demand, there is also a limit to the ridiculousness people are willing to get into.

Nvidia has no reason to provide any real quantities of Blackwell to consumers, not when Nvidia and everyone else are making massive profit on inflated MSRPs, while Nvidia can also charge 2000% margins for datacenter hardware.
The only sku I would expect to have any decent supply is the 5060, but if the leaks are true its looking to be another overpriced turd since the xx60 has moved to the lowest end of the stack.

Hecate91Nvidia has no reason to provide any real quantities of Blackwell to consumers, not when Nvidia and everyone else are making massive profit on inflated MSRPs, while Nvidia can also charge 2000% margins for datacenter hardware.
The only sku I would expect to have any decent supply is the 5060, but the xx60 is looking to be another overpriced turd since the xx60 has moved to the lowest end of the stack.

Nvidia is making 0 profits on "inflated MSRPS" (whatever that means). Stores selling for exorbitant prices don't share their profits with nvidia bud. Stop being out there, come back to planet Earth, that's not how it works.

JustBenchingI really don't know this time around, are we ever going to see 5xxx in large numbers within the year? Cause a year from now it kinda stops mattering, not a lot of people would buy high end products 1 year after launch, cause the value is just not there with the new generation being "around" the corner. Same applies to amd, I don't have high hopes that there will be lots of stock but I pray im wrong.

I'm really wondering what datacenter's even doing with all this hardware. It's not free money like crypto was, so what's it even being used for? Training up infinity+ AI waifus?

JustBenchingThat's what they did. 699 is for the MBA models (probably?) but the kicker is, there won't be a lot if any mba models.

AMD has said there won't be an MBA version.

JustBenchingIm not sure what the goal is, but they are doing it. Trust me.

Maybe you should come back to earth if you haven't realized it yet, the goal is prioritizing datacenter and AI, while gamers just get the cast off leftovers, it's become obvious now with all the issues Blackwell is having. A monopoly and the fact gamers will buy it no matter what means Nvidia is testing the limits of how far they can push up pricing while QA goes to sh*t.

JustBenchingcause it's not a very lucrative market

You said it yourself, AMD cutting costs to the point of losing profit isn't very lucrative, it's why they dropped out of the high end market, there isn't any point in producing a high end product to only be forced to cut the MSRP.

JustBenchingFocus the production on gpus, make 2 million gpus a quarter

AMD is limited by how many dies they can purchase from TSMC, companies like Nvidia and Apple have higher priority on fab space than AMD does.

JustBenchingNvidia is making 0 profits on "inflated MSRPS" (whatever that means). Stores selling for exorbitant prices don't share their profits with nvidia bud. Stop being out there, come back to planet Earth, that's not how it works.

Have any proof of this then?
If there is no stock the MSRPs are fake either way, I don't care who is ripping me off as a consumer, but the blame still lies on Nvidia for holding back supply.

Amazon sells a 5080 for 2k$ and nvidia gets a cut. Right right. The goddamn nvidia hatred is a mindrot.

Rover4444I'm really wondering what datacenter's even doing with all this hardware. It's not free money like crypto was, so what's it even being used for? Training up infinity+ AI waifus?

Well I can tell you that gpt for example has accelerated some workloads by a metric ton. Eg in education it's being used to create hundreds upon hundreds of exercises for students. It can do within an afternoon what would normally take weeks.

Hecate91AMD is limited by how many dies they can purchase from TSMC, companies like Nvidia and Apple have higher priority on fab space than AMD does.

Everyone is limited by how many dies they can purchase. Amd wants to sell 5k and 10k cpus to servers, doesn't care about the rest of us. You know, the rest of us that supported the company and brought it back from the dead in 2017.

RT gamers enjoying RT while eating in front of their monitor idling? Nice picture quality? Do you have to zoom in 300% to notice the differences?

JustBenchingAmazon sells a 5080 for 2k$ and nvidia gets a cut. Right right. The goddamn nvidia hatred is a mindrot.


Well I can tell you that gpt for example has accelerated some workloads by a metric ton. Eg in education it's being used to create hundreds upon hundreds of exercises for students. It can do within an afternoon what would normally take weeks.

The only thing I can think of that would require the new Blackwells over Hopper would be for training new image models, honestly. I'm pretty sure it's training that makes the big bucks, inference not so much.

tommesfpsRT gamers enjoying RT while eating in front of their monitor idling? Nice picture quality? Do you have to zoom in 300% to notice the differences?

The production guys are certainly eating good!

dir_dBetter Value than Nvidia but far from Great.

There's no value! At $750 for 5070Ti, means the MSRP includes nVidia's "usual" lunacy margins above 70%. If AMD prices their cards, considering their chips are much smaller, using older cheaper, mature, nodes, with better successful rate, while using older GDDR6 and not even fastest VRAM, means their margins are going to be even more than the ones, that nVidia has the hubris to demand. Do you get the point? Even at $50 cheaper, they are perhaps at even much, much higher margins! At this price, people will ignore AMD, like the generation before, and will just stick with "proven" RTX cards, regardless of issues. Just because these have the recent "success" among the gamers and compute audience.

At this point, this is pure gouging. If this is true, they might as well push yet another BS to the press, why they are sticking to the already ridiculous, unreasonable exorbitant price, to begin with. Just because people got used to the Covid imposed "scarcity" prices, doesn't mean, the GPU makers are allowed to set the sh*t pricing out of the thin air.

$550 for XT is fine price. Don't be fooled by comparison, and an efforts to bound the price to the nVidia counterparts. If Intel had the stock of so called "B770" right now, they might as well try to undercut both. Or maybe not....

My bet is AMD will indeed price this -$50 because they know nobody can buy Nvidia at MSRP. If they come out with huge volumes, unscalpable volumes, and have availability at MSRP, they will probably sell well.

But this is extremely short term thinking, and in the long run they will lose market share once Nvidia increases production, if they do.

from reddit:

Same AMD. Same strategy. Same result as always.
We’ve tried nothing and are all out of ideas!
We tried the exact same thing as last year, and the situation only got worse, not sure what else to do


spot on :D

KritI'm not saying i'm 100% correct but i have feeling that if we saw the real numbers people would be shocked. People's opinion about nvidia would dramatically change.

I did some calculations... Die Sizes:

• 9070XT: 359 mm²
• RTX 5080: 379 mm²

Assuming $400-450 million R&D per 4nm chip (standalone development), plus

• Masks: $25 million per chip design.
• Tooling: $15 million per chip.
• Total fixed cost per chip = $25M + $15M = $40 million.

Production Volume, is used as amortization(the numbers are theoretical),

• 9070XT: 5M units
• RTX 5080/5070ti: 10M units

The estimated cost per unit is,

• 9070XT: $459
• RTX 5080: $429

Bomby569from reddit:

Same AMD. Same strategy. Same result as always.
We’ve tried nothing and are all out of ideas!
We tried the exact same thing as last year, and the situation only got worse, not sure what else to do


spot on :D

"We even did another Raja and even inflated the price point! And it still failed!"

DahitaWrong. They are limiting the production in favor of the AI market which now represents more than 80% of their marketshare and is much more lucrative.
stockanalysis.com/stocks/nvda/metrics/revenue-by-segment/

Very specifically, they are producing for Elon Musk rather than us.
techreport.com/news/xai-6-billion-purchase-100000-nvidia-chips/

They couldn't care less whether a 5090 is priced $2000, $3000 or $4000, first off because these prices are inflated at the AIB or retailer level, secondly because that is no longer their main source of revenue, by far.

If they knew that they don't have enough supply and they knew, then they should have come out and say "MSRP for 5070 Ti? $1100", not $750. They should announce $750 when they can supply enough cards to cover demand, not when they have enough supply for 5 minutes. And they can't announce MSRP $750 when most models will play $200 over MSRP. AI excuse here is not an argument because they KNOW how much orders they have from Musk or anyone else. It's not that they intended to flood the market with RTX cards and the phone rang and it was Musk and they had to change their plans in the last minute.

And if they don't care about prices, they wouldn't have baited users with those FAKE prices.

As for AIBs and retailers, if they are responsible for those prices, then why all that negativity about AMD's pricing. It's the retailers and AIBs who will increase prices anyway, so either $550 either $750 MSRP for the 9070XT, it doesn't matter.

But you forget gamers (like me) stuck on a 20X0 or earlier, trying to upgrade. We're forced to deal with what is available.

If you want to upgrade, send two letters.
One to Nvidia asking for lower prices.
One to AMD thanking them for the Frame Generation support through FSR 3.1.
Well, you can send and a third letter asking Nvidia why they didn't provided Frame Generation to RTX 2000 series cards.

They don't, MSRP for the 5080 is $999 while the MSRP of the 4080 was $1,199. They don't care about this segment anymore. In the US alone, there was something like 1000 RTX 5080 available. Do you really think they don't understand the concept of an economy of scale?!

Nvidia's marketing department are magicians. I am keep telling it. You are using 5080 MSRP as if it is real. That's not an argument. A fake MSRP is not an argument that favors your opinion. It's a counter argument that proves the opposite.

Sure, I guess I missed the fun. I'm not trying to pick on you. I'm sure eager for this card to get out to see if I'm finally going to be able to upgrade with a product that makes sense, and I like discussing the facts, so I'm quick to point out things that don't make sense IMO.

You stuck on a fun line and missed the whole point. When making news articles you don;t put your opinion, or what countless trolls post on the internet about AMD to make it look bad, to damage control for Nvidia's pricing. You just don't. It's a news article.
For example, one of the latest news is about RTX 5060 Ti having also an 8GB version. Well, imagine the title saying "another 8GB card". That would be driving negativity towards Nvidia. Well, you DON'T. Not in a news title, if you intent to be a neutral reporter. You want to critisize Nvidia for preparing an 8GB card in 2025, that will probably be selling for $300 or more. OK, do it in aseperate post unter the news article. NOT on the title.

DenverThe estimated cost per unit is,

• 9070XT: $459
• RTX 5080: $429

Now, how much will RTX 5080's price change if we assume that a customer like Nvidia gets somewhat better prices from TSMC?

Recus2016: 84% buy $100-$300 GPU
2025: 85% buy $700 GPU

This is probably the most interesting post in the whole thread. It shows how much the market changed and how much more people spend for a graphics card.
(or that AMD's statistics are bogus)

Oh ok. This series are dead for this price.their market share will not increase for this price

DahitaBut you forget gamers (like me) stuck on a 20X0 or earlier, trying to upgrade. We're forced to deal with what is available.

Don't trade up, trade down; get a second hand GPU, or something in the (bottom) midrange with some longevity, which means explicitly NOT an 8GB piece of shit.

These GPUs still exist. And then when markets come to their senses, you get something nice again. At the very least, this way you are not funding the continued existence of said broken market.

john_If they knew that they don't have enough supply and they knew, then they should have come out and say "MSRP for 5070 Ti? $1100", not $750. They should announce $750 when they can supply enough cards to cover demand, not when they have enough supply for 5 minutes. And they can't announce MSRP $750 when most models will play $200 over MSRP. AI excuse here is not an argument because they KNOW how much orders they have from Musk or anyone else. It's not that they intended to flood the market with RTX cards and the phone rang and it was Musk and they had to change their plans in the last minute.

And if they don't care about prices, they wouldn't have baited users with those FAKE prices.

As for AIBs and retailers, if they are responsible for those prices, then why all that negativity about AMD's pricing. It's the retailers and AIBs who will increase prices anyway, so either $550 either $750 MSRP for the 9070XT, it doesn't matter.


If you want to upgrade, send two letters.
One to Nvidia asking for lower prices.
One to AMD thanking them for the Frame Generation support through FSR 3.1.
Well, you can send and a third letter asking Nvidia why they didn't provided Frame Generation to RTX 2000 series cards.

Nvidia's marketing department are magicians. I am keep telling it. You are using 5080 MSRP as if it is real. That's not an argument. A fake MSRP is not an argument that favors your opinion. It's a counter argument that proves the opposite.

You stuck on a fun line and missed the whole point. When making news articles you don;t put your opinion, or what countless trolls post on the internet about AMD to make it look bad, to damage control for Nvidia's pricing. You just don't. It's a news article.
For example, one of the latest news is about RTX 5060 Ti having also an 8GB version. Well, imagine the title saying "another 8GB card". That would be driving negativity towards Nvidia. Well, you DON'T. Not in a news title, if you intent to be a neutral reporter. You want to critisize Nvidia for preparing an 8GB card in 2025, that will probably be selling for $300 or more. OK, do it in aseperate post unter the news article. NOT on the title.


Now, how much will RTX 5080's price change if we assume that a customer like Nvidia gets somewhat better prices from TSMC?


This is probably the most interesting post in the whole thread. It shows how much the market changed and how much more people spend for a graphics card.
(or that AMD's statistics are bogus)

Maybe a 10% price reduction, but I recall that TSMC announced the end of discounts for large customers about two years ago.

Maybe this “leak” is intentional so they can judge the reaction to the proposed price.

Rover4444No, you don't. What's driving demand in the GPU market? Nobody really "needs" a new GPU for gaming anymore because a lot of these new games that require them are either not worth playing or unplayable, and I'd argue most people don't care about raytracing, either. The 2000 series from NVIDIA was also trash pricewise so it's a poor comparison.

And for all that talk about not ignoring the competition, you really ignored the competition on this one. The 9070 XT at $690 is a bad price because the 5070 Ti at $750 exists. It's also a bad price because it won't meet AMD's stated objectives this generation, which is "increase market share". Which necessitates lower pricing.

And yet, prices are listed this morning at Microcenter for the XT models between $700 and $1100. I guess you need to hit the books again on basic sales concepts :roll: