Friday, January 21st 2022

Intel Arc Alchemist Xe-HPG Graphics Card with 512 EUs Outperforms NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti

Intel's Arc Alchemist discrete lineup of graphics cards is scheduled for launch this quarter. We are getting some performance benchmarks of the DG2-512EU silicon, representing the top-end Xe-HPG configuration. Thanks to a discovery of a famous hardware leaker TUM_APISAK, we have a measurement performed in the SiSoftware database that shows Intel's Arc Alchemist GPU with 4096 cores and, according to the report from the benchmark, just 12.8 GB of GDDR6 VRAM. This is just an error on the report, as this GPU SKU should be coupled with 16 GB of GDDR6 VRAM. The card was reportedly running at 2.1 GHz frequency. However, we don't know if this represents base or boost speeds.

When it comes to actual performance, the DG2-512EU GPU managed to score 9017.52 Mpix/s, while something like NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti managed to get 8369.51 Mpix/s in the same test group. Comparing these two cards in floating-point operations, Intel has an advantage in half-float, double-float, and quad-float tests, while NVIDIA manages to hold the single-float crown. This represents a 7% advantage for Intel's GPU, meaning that Arc Alchemist has the potential for standing up against NVIDIA's offerings.
Sources: SiSoftware Benchmark Database, @TUM_APISAK (Twitter), via VideoCardz
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95 Comments on Intel Arc Alchemist Xe-HPG Graphics Card with 512 EUs Outperforms NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti

#26
dj-electric
CrackongI guess you might have missed all the "LEAKS" of Intel's 12th gen CPU launch.

No one would think the company was working against the leaks when the "leaks" pops up EVERY WORKING DAY before the CPU launch, for a whole month.

If that's what you called working against the leaks ,

Intel should have fired the whole PR team since they are chaos in information security.
Are you aware of the amount of evaluation boards and pre-production CPUs that reach people around the world before 12th gen launch?
Its not in the dozens,
Its not in the hundreds,
Its in the tens of thousands.

Intel is literally producing crates of platform components and ship them all across the world before a launch of such platform
Posted on Reply
#27
Jism
Geez if you are able to bench using that tool, why not something syntetic or actual in game benchmarks?
Posted on Reply
#28
Crackong
dj-electricAre you aware of the amount of evaluation boards and pre-production CPUs that reach people around the world before 12th gen launch?
Its not in the dozens,
Its not in the hundreds,
Its in the tens of thousands.

Intel is literally producing crates of platform components and ship them all across the world before a launch of such platform
Hmm..
Are you aware of how NDA works and companies used to sue someone selling or leaking info of an unreleased product obtained via evaluation channels ?
Posted on Reply
#29
AnarchoPrimitiv
How come whenever Intel dGPUs are talked about, everyone completely fails to mention that Intel is having them produced at TSMC which means that these videocards will do absolutely NOTHING to alleviate supply shortages, and therefore absolutely NOTHING to lower prices...it'll just force an already carved up pie to be carved up into even smaller segments. Now if Intel was going to have them produced at their own fabs, that's be a totally different story and something to look forward to, but as it stands now,I honestly do not see a single reason to get excited about these cards regardless of how they perform...what's the point of having another sold out, overpriced brand [not] available?

While on the topic, this is yet one of many reasons why enthusiasts should be rather displeased with Intel using TSMC for any products, CPU or GPU, it's just going to make things worse in both markets. Don't even get me started on CPUs, but nobody should be happy about Intel stealing capacity away from AMD. It's just another instance of Intel leaning on their financial power to beat AMD instead of out innovating them...I never miss a chance to mention the fact that Intel's annual R&D budget is over 650% larger and their annual revenue is over 800% larger than AMD's respectively...this is also the reason why nobody should be impressed by Alderlake outperforming over a year old Zen3 CPU by 10% or less on average, and why everybody should be impressed with AMD beating Intel for the last few years and why AMD's previous process node advantage serves as absolutely no excuse for Intel's mediocre performance based on how they literally have every single financial and resource advantage over AMD. In a just world, Intel should be forced to use their own fabs...at least until AMD achieves around 50% of the mobility (laptop) and enterprise x86 markets, the most lucrative x86 markets, which they are light-years away from. This is why, with respect to ensuring long term competition in the market, nobody should be claiming "it's great that Intel is competing again", especially considering that with the current shortages, nothing is lowering prices in the short term, and based on financial realities, AMD's current position is extremely precarious compared to Intel's. All it would take is a few years/a couple generations of supply shortage woes for AMD, even IF they have performance parity or even slightly beat intel, to stagnate AMD's revenue (something that Intel can easily weather), contract their market gains, and return us to the pre-ryzen dark ages of Intel hegemony, 4% generation over generation performance "gains", and overpriced CPUs that offer nothing over the previous one for all intents and purposes.

And the same thing can be said for the dGPU market as well, Intel doesn't truly represent a new competitor in the same way that a whole new entity would represent. Intel can easily throw around their financial weight in ways even worse than Nvidia has been guilty of, squeeze AMD out (which AMD I'm sure would have no problem abandoning and consolidating down to exclusively semi-custom and IP development for other companies), and leave us in an even worse position...can you imagine the cartels, monopolistic and uncompetitive practices Intel and Nvidia would engage in if left alone to their own devices in the videocard market?

Sorry for the rant, but I felt it necessary to counter the seeming universal praise I see for Intel entering the GPU market and stretching TSMC'S supply even thinner.
Posted on Reply
#30
ppn
6nm is for the low end, 7600XT. yeah that is a low end now. soon.
AMD,NVidia are moving to 5nm, SO intel can have 6nm and 3nm. Better not release this GPU if it can mine crapto at more than $1day.
Posted on Reply
#31
vMax65
AnarchoPrimitivHow come whenever Intel dGPUs are talked about, everyone completely fails to mention that Intel is having them produced at TSMC which means that these videocards will do absolutely NOTHING to alleviate supply shortages, and therefore absolutely NOTHING to lower prices...it'll just force an already carved up pie to be carved up into even smaller segments. Now if Intel was going to have them produced at their own fabs, that's be a totally different story and something to look forward to, but as it stands now,I honestly do not see a single reason to get excited about these cards regardless of how they perform...what's the point of having another sold out, overpriced brand [not] available?

While on the topic, this is yet one of many reasons why enthusiasts should be rather displeased with Intel using TSMC for any products, CPU or GPU, it's just going to make things worse in both markets. Don't even get me started on CPUs, but nobody should be happy about Intel stealing capacity away from AMD. It's just another instance of Intel leaning on their financial power to beat AMD instead of out innovating them...I never miss a chance to mention the fact that Intel's annual R&D budget is over 650% larger and their annual revenue is over 800% larger than AMD's respectively...this is also the reason why nobody should be impressed by Alderlake outperforming over a year old Zen3 CPU by 10% or less on average, and why everybody should be impressed with AMD beating Intel for the last few years and why AMD's previous process node advantage serves as absolutely no excuse for Intel's mediocre performance based on how they literally have every single financial and resource advantage over AMD. In a just world, Intel should be forced to use their own fabs...at least until AMD achieves around 50% of the mobility (laptop) and enterprise x86 markets, the most lucrative x86 markets, which they are light-years away from. This is why, with respect to ensuring long term competition in the market, nobody should be claiming "it's great that Intel is competing again", especially considering that with the current shortages, nothing is lowering prices in the short term, and based on financial realities, AMD's current position is extremely precarious compared to Intel's. All it would take is a few years/a couple generations of supply shortage woes for AMD, even IF they have performance parity or even slightly beat intel, to stagnate AMD's revenue (something that Intel can easily weather), contract their market gains, and return us to the pre-ryzen dark ages of Intel hegemony, 4% generation over generation performance "gains", and overpriced CPUs that offer nothing over the previous one for all intents and purposes.

And the same thing can be said for the dGPU market as well, Intel doesn't truly represent a new competitor in the same way that a whole new entity would represent. Intel can easily throw around their financial weight in ways even worse than Nvidia has been guilty of, squeeze AMD out (which AMD I'm sure would have no problem abandoning and consolidating down to exclusively semi-custom and IP development for other companies), and leave us in an even worse position...can you imagine the cartels, monopolistic and uncompetitive practices Intel and Nvidia would engage in if left alone to their own devices in the videocard market?

Sorry for the rant, but I felt it necessary to counter the seeming universal praise I see for Intel entering the GPU market and stretching TSMC'S supply even thinner.
Bottom line we will have a 3rd player in the enthusiast GPU market (going all the way back to the Matrox and 3DFX days!) which can only be a good thing. Regardless of the supply issues, miners, scalpers etc we finally have a another competitor in the market and not a small competitor. If Intel wants to really compete, they have the muscle and the money to do it and even more importantly an opportunity to win big with consumers/gamers by launching GPU's at decent prices and with decent stock (I pray they take advantage of AMD and Nvidia). The reason I don't feel fearful about Intel right now is that there recent Alder Lake launch was done fairly well with decent prices and availability at launch and I am impressed especially after Intel dropped the ball and dropped the ball big time so to be able to catchup with AMD and now looking to a faster cadence of product launches can only bode well.

The Intel TSMC question is jus Intel utilising resources to the max, they are building new fabs at a fast pace with Ireland coming on line now and Ohio next so production and most important stock should start improving across the board. Both AMD and Nvidia have been absolutely terrible this time around with there GPU launches and no one can tell me they haven't jumped on the misery of gamers by upping prices, controlling production and utilising terrible tactics to drive up prices even with the current supply chain issues. Without a doubt they could have produced more once they realised what was happening, sadly the $$$ in supply and demand lit them up and they took advantage. Of course both AMD and Nvidia could have launched even more gimped GPU's for mining or even just ramped production. The RTX 3080 is a great example of one of the best GPU's ever produced at $700 only for Nvidia to realise that they could have got so much more money and thus the launch of the 3080 12GB..and AMD with the RX5600XT which I personally cannot believe they launched on a x4 bus with ne encoding and 4GB even after they said 4GB is not good for gamers! One only needs to look at the profits at AMD and Nvidia to realise they are focussed completely on the shareholders and certainly not on there customers. They are business but boy have they gone of the deep end widening there profit margins.

No I do not think we are going back to the old days as Alder Lake showed not only a significant increase in performance but also they did not whack the prices up as well. I personally cannot understand why AMD gave up on the low end of the CPU market and started upping there prices of CPU's. The 12400 at $180 is something AMD have nothing to compete against.

Maybe I am just an optimist but we are living in an age where we have immense CPU performance for not a lot of money and thank God for AMD in bringing much needed competition! the GPU market has obviously gone of a cliff in part due to crypto and in part due to greed from AMD, Nvidia some AIB's and scalpers but ultimately production will fix this and of course having a third GPU player in Intel will hopefully improve things.
Posted on Reply
#32
seth1911
FFS if it perform on 3050 Level we need a 3rd player in the GPU Market Nvidia can do what they want and AMD say only: Hold my Beer:mad:

Amd become such of a shit Company since ryzen, i will buy a DG2 from Intel with similar performance to a 6500XT for a normaly price.


Nvidia will be the King for sure but AMD would get a problem and then we need a new Price War.:)
Its good for every one who use A GPU for more than to display anything static.


Come on a 6500XT for 199$ MSRP is a Joke with 64bit and x4 Lanes,
a GT 1030 for 100$ have 64bit and x8 Lanes.

Or such Old GPU like a GT 710 with GDDR5 have 64bit and x8 Lanes. (mine only x1 cause its a x1 GPU and fit in every Slot)
Posted on Reply
#33
RH92
Honestly it's close to impossible to extrapolate gaming perf bases on those benchmarks especially between two different architectures so i would certainly not make bold claims on who out performs whome at such an early stage .

That being said it would be great if Intel can effectively compete against a 3070Ti especially knowing Intel GPUs will come up from the getgo with a temporal upscaling solution unlike AMD , thus being able to not only compete on rasterization ( like AMD ) but also against game changing features such as DLSS.

Overall this will push both NVIDIA and AMD ( AMD especially ) to be less conservative with their future architectures and will brake the historic duopoly which can only benefit the end user .
Posted on Reply
#34
trsttte
HyderzCould it be drivers, software compatibility, hardware?
Going by how fast the Alder Lake DRM and other issues were solved, i'd guess drivers won't be as big of a problem as everyone thinks. I doubt they'll be perfect, far from it since they're a new comer of sorts after all, but Intel is a heavy weight in the industry and wields a big amount of power over, well, everyone.
AnarchoPrimitivHow come whenever Intel dGPUs are talked about, everyone completely fails to mention that Intel is having them produced at TSMC which means that these videocards will do absolutely NOTHING to alleviate supply shortages, and therefore absolutely NOTHING to lower prices...it'll just force an already carved up pie to be carved up into even smaller segments. Now if Intel was going to have them produced at their own fabs, that's be a totally different story and something to look forward to, but as it stands now,I honestly do not see a single reason to get excited about these cards regardless of how they perform...what's the point of having another sold out, overpriced brand [not] available?
That's not true and it doesn't work like that. Even before this discrete gpu venture, Intel was one of the largest TSMC customers. Intel using N6/N7 TSMC capacity does nothing for whatever capacity or lack thereof AMD and other companies had already bought. These contracts are made years in advance, not weeks or months. Intel will also use their own packaging facilities, they won't rely on TSMC for the entire process.

Will the current supply/demand dynamics dramatically change with Intel dgpu? Unlikely, but there's a lot more to it than "they'll only strain tsmc even more!"
Posted on Reply
#35
Dux
Oh. After reading the title, I thought it outperforms RTX 3070Ti in game tests. These just pure numbers that don't really mean much. Especially if intel releases some crappy drivers to go along with this graphics card. In reality, I'll be suprised if it manages to keep up with RTX 3060Ti.
Posted on Reply
#36
Vayra86
btarunrNot too shabby for a first-attempt at high-end.

RTX 3070 Ti is plenty fast, and if this card can beat it, it puts NVIDIA and AMD on notice. Intel has the money to pull off even faster cards.
Mhm. Intel i7 5775C ring a bell? They had money... especially back then, ruling the market alone... they had an APU & gaming-first design that lost everything that made it great when it was succeeded by Skylake. Too expensive. It was apparently cheaper to half-market Iris Pro GPUs and then release nothing substantial to differentiate from their existing IGP lines. Yeah, a few halo APUs that barely saw the light of day... a few weird one-offs followed, even together with other GPUs... Nothing seems to stick except the eternal rehash of that ultra cheap IGP they've always had, 'refined'.

Its not about money, its about viable product. I do think Intel likes to not repeat what AMD has been doing since it bought ATI for its GPUs. A break even was a good year in their books. Also this is obviously not 3070ti perf, it could easily be 3060, we just don't know. Let alone RT perf or how they compare or fall off when both are in use.

We've already seen Raja swing his 4P chips around like he's compensating something else, but really... size matters. A lot. We've seen this all before. Huge chips don't fly for consumer markets. So far, there's a lot of boxes Intel still needs to be ticking for any semblance of success.
Posted on Reply
#37
Daven
AnarchoPrimitivHow come whenever Intel dGPUs are talked about, everyone completely fails to mention that Intel is having them produced at TSMC which means that these videocards will do absolutely NOTHING to alleviate supply shortages, and therefore absolutely NOTHING to lower prices...it'll just force an already carved up pie to be carved up into even smaller segments. Now if Intel was going to have them produced at their own fabs, that's be a totally different story and something to look forward to, but as it stands now,I honestly do not see a single reason to get excited about these cards regardless of how they perform...what's the point of having another sold out, overpriced brand [not] available?

While on the topic, this is yet one of many reasons why enthusiasts should be rather displeased with Intel using TSMC for any products, CPU or GPU, it's just going to make things worse in both markets. Don't even get me started on CPUs, but nobody should be happy about Intel stealing capacity away from AMD. It's just another instance of Intel leaning on their financial power to beat AMD instead of out innovating them...I never miss a chance to mention the fact that Intel's annual R&D budget is over 650% larger and their annual revenue is over 800% larger than AMD's respectively...this is also the reason why nobody should be impressed by Alderlake outperforming over a year old Zen3 CPU by 10% or less on average, and why everybody should be impressed with AMD beating Intel for the last few years and why AMD's previous process node advantage serves as absolutely no excuse for Intel's mediocre performance based on how they literally have every single financial and resource advantage over AMD. In a just world, Intel should be forced to use their own fabs...at least until AMD achieves around 50% of the mobility (laptop) and enterprise x86 markets, the most lucrative x86 markets, which they are light-years away from. This is why, with respect to ensuring long term competition in the market, nobody should be claiming "it's great that Intel is competing again", especially considering that with the current shortages, nothing is lowering prices in the short term, and based on financial realities, AMD's current position is extremely precarious compared to Intel's. All it would take is a few years/a couple generations of supply shortage woes for AMD, even IF they have performance parity or even slightly beat intel, to stagnate AMD's revenue (something that Intel can easily weather), contract their market gains, and return us to the pre-ryzen dark ages of Intel hegemony, 4% generation over generation performance "gains", and overpriced CPUs that offer nothing over the previous one for all intents and purposes.

And the same thing can be said for the dGPU market as well, Intel doesn't truly represent a new competitor in the same way that a whole new entity would represent. Intel can easily throw around their financial weight in ways even worse than Nvidia has been guilty of, squeeze AMD out (which AMD I'm sure would have no problem abandoning and consolidating down to exclusively semi-custom and IP development for other companies), and leave us in an even worse position...can you imagine the cartels, monopolistic and uncompetitive practices Intel and Nvidia would engage in if left alone to their own devices in the videocard market?

Sorry for the rant, but I felt it necessary to counter the seeming universal praise I see for Intel entering the GPU market and stretching TSMC'S supply even thinner.
I agree 100% with everything you wrote and I appreciate that you said it. Many here are unable or unwilling to accept the realities of the market that we love so much.
trsttteGoing by how fast the Alder Lake DRM and other issues were solved, i'd guess drivers won't be as big of a problem as everyone thinks. I doubt they'll be perfect, far from it since they're a new comer of sorts after all, but Intel is a heavy weight in the industry and wields a big amount of power over, well, everyone.



That's not true and it doesn't work like that. Even before this discrete gpu venture, Intel was one of the largest TSMC customers. Intel using N6/N7 TSMC capacity does nothing for whatever capacity or lack thereof AMD and other companies had already bought. These contracts are made years in advance, not weeks or months. Intel will also use their own packaging facilities, they won't rely on TSMC for the entire process.

Will the current supply/demand dynamics dramatically change with Intel dgpu? Unlikely, but there's a lot more to it than "they'll only strain tsmc even more!"
If Intel was such a large customer of TSMC in the past, what did Intel have TSMC fab for them?
Posted on Reply
#38
TheoneandonlyMrK
DavenI agree 100% with everything you wrote and I appreciate that you said it. Many here are unable or unwilling to accept the realities of the market that we love so much.


If Intel was such a large customer of TSMC in the past, what did Intel have TSMC fab for them?
Because it is not a valid standpoint, they're using new node's, tsmc is expanding capacity and most importantly tsmc are not the only game in town , also worth noting EUV full lithography is new , it's not a node swap alone, the production takes longer and means the lead Tsmc have will take effort to maintain, if ever Samsung and Intel fabs have a chance of catching them it's now or possibly GAA ribbon FET transistors.
Nvidia did ok elsewhere, they're bottom end didn't fall out, in reality it's taken four years for AMD to poke Intel into doing something, because they're bottom line kept growing anyway despite loosing market share.

It'll come down to driver support and Intel is behind significantly there oh and actually f£#@£& releasing something.
Posted on Reply
#39
lexluthermiester
Caring1That's comparing Cuda to Open CL.
Does the Intel GPU even have Cuda capabilities?
The results are the important data, not the api those result are rendered on.
FouquinIf I recall, FP32 is still the most important metric for game performance today. So we're not really looking at a win on that front.
It's to early to call that one as benchmarks for games have not been shown publicly yet. However, they are coming.
Posted on Reply
#40
trsttte
DavenIf Intel was such a large customer of TSMC in the past, what did Intel have TSMC fab for them?
Modems, chipsets, some atom and celeron chips when necessary (pentium as well irc), some fpgas, etc etc etc. Intel does A LOT more than just the cpus you read about in tech forums like this one.
Posted on Reply
#41
mama
Is there a release date?
Posted on Reply
#42
AusWolf
This doesn't mean a thing. We'll have to see how it performs in games, and how good its drivers are gonna be.
Posted on Reply
#43
dj-electric
CrackongAre you aware of how NDA works and companies used to sue someone selling or leaking info of an unreleased product obtained via evaluation channels ?
Yes, im fully aware of how NDAs work, as a small part of what i mentioned myself.
But its not water tight. Intel doesn't have full grip on these things, and much like how medias like Gamers Nexus did, often you can go on Ebay and buy ES CPUs much before products hit the shelves and those sellers are most of the times don't get caught. Documentation on this stuff is often a bit loose. A medium sized manufecturer can end up with some samples it does not need anymore, or that got updated with newer ones
Posted on Reply
#44
Crackong
dj-electricYes, im fully aware of how NDAs work, as a small part of what i mentioned myself.
But its not water tight. Intel doesn't have full grip on these things, and much like how medias like Gamers Nexus did, often you can go on Ebay and buy ES CPUs much before products hit the shelves and those sellers are most of the times don't get caught. Documentation on this stuff is often a bit loose. A medium sized manufecturer can end up with some samples it does not need anymore, or that got updated with newer ones
Since you are aware of that.
You should be aware of how awful it was, when we saw "New leaks" before the 12th gen launch day.
The "leaks" did not last for few days, or a week, they last for a whole month.
Every single working day within that month, a "New leak" popped up.

We all know NDA isn't water tight
But this?
This a swiss cheese.

As I 've mentioned before, this is either intentional, or Intel should fire the whole PR team for that.

Posted on Reply
#45
ratirt
Intel's new dGPU with some number and around 3070TI performance. Not bad but that depends on so many things that I really just can't keep my hopes up for this one.
Let Intel play GPU game and see where it leads them. For now I can smirk at it.
Posted on Reply
#46
Luminescent
One thing to get excited about with these Intel GPU's is good support with content creation software, Adobe software will probably support whatever Intel puts in that GPU from day one, just remember for how long quicksync was supported in Adobe premiere and how many years took to implement Cuda and AMD opencl encoding, even now quicksync decodes a lot more codecs than Amd and Nvidia.
So Cuda will be second best in Adobe suite.
Posted on Reply
#47
Vayra86
FouquinI guarantee you they'd rather not have attention on HPG in this way. They want the narrative controlled to their side, not this ambiguous trash that produces such negative responses. For the record ALL of these companies are working against leaks like this. They don't like when information gets out without an official statement to accompany it.
LOL.

Yeah, no. Just no. You must not have looked around too much the last decade to say the above... Leaks are 70% marketing if not more and it happens at every company and product release these days.

Even in politics 'the leak' is a tried and tested tool to gauge the public response before actually finalizing an idea.
Posted on Reply
#48
HD64G
ppn6nm is for the low end, 7600XT. yeah that is a low end now. soon.
AMD,NVidia are moving to 5nm, SO intel can have 6nm and 3nm. Better not release this GPU if it can mine crapto at more than $1day.
A mistake there. 6nm is an enhanced 7nm node and since it allows a bit higher clocks or lower power draw, AMD will refresh their whole RX6X00 line up using that. They just started with the low end because the 6500XT/6400 core chips are being made for at least 2-3 months now firstly for notebooks and the ones for desktop are the lower binned ones.
Posted on Reply
#49
Totally
dj-electricAre you aware of the amount of evaluation boards and pre-production CPUs that reach people around the world before 12th gen launch?
Its not in the dozens,
Its not in the hundreds,
Its in the tens of thousands.

Intel is literally producing crates of platform components and ship them all across the world before a launch of such platform
If that's the case then what's the point of an NDA if they aren't going to enforce it?
Posted on Reply
#50
Arctucas
Wait and see.

If Intel makes a good product, people will buy it.
Posted on Reply
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