Friday, January 26th 2024
More AMD Ryzen 9000 "Zen 5" Desktop Processor Details Emerge
AMD is looking to debut its Ryzen 9000 series "Granite Ridge" desktop processors based on the "Zen 5" microarchitecture some time around May-June 2024, according to High Yield YT, a reliable source with AMD leaks. These processors will be built in the existing Socket AM5 package, and be compatible with all existing AMD 600 series chipset motherboards. It remains to be seen if AMD debuts a new line of motherboard chipsets. Almost all Socket AM5 motherboards come with the USB BIOS flashback feature, which means motherboards from even the earliest production batches that are in the retail channel, should be able to easily support the new processors.
AMD is giving its next-gen desktop processors the Ryzen 9000 series processor model numbering, as it used the Ryzen 8000 series for its recently announced Socket AM5 desktop APUs based on the "Hawk Point" monolithic silicon. "Granite Ridge" will be a chiplet-based processor, much like the Ryzen 7000 series "Raphael." In fact, it will even retain the same 6 nm client I/O die (cIOD) as "Raphael," with some possible revisions made to increase its native DDR5 memory frequency (up from the current DDR5-5200), and improve its memory overclocking capabilities. It's being reported that DDR5-6400 could be the new "sweetspot" memory speed for these processors, up from the current DDR5-6000.
The "Granite Ridge" processor will feature one or two "Eldora" CPU complex dies (CCDs). Each CCD contains eight "Zen 5" CPU cores (aka "Nirvana" cores), each with 1 MB of L2 cache, and a yet undisclosed amount of on-die L3 cache. The "Zen 5" CCD will be built on the TSMC N4 (4 nm EUV) foundry node, the same node on which the company builds its "Hawk Point" monolithic silicon.
The "Zen 5" CPU core is expected by AMD to achieve a 10-15 percent IPC uplift over "Zen 4," which should put its gaming performance roughly comparable to those of Ryzen 7000X3D series processors, but without the 3D Vertical Cache, yielding higher headroom for clock speeds and overclocking. High Yield YT believes that a May-June launch of Ryzen 9000 "Granite Ridge" could give AMD free reign over the DIY gaming desktop market until Intel comes around to launch its next-generation Core "Arrow Lake-S" desktop processor in the Socket LGA1851 package, some time in September-October 2024, setting the stage for Ryzen 9000X3D processors by CES (January 2025).
It was recently reported that "Zen 5" processors are already in mass production, although this could refer to the "Eldora" CCD that makes its way not just to the "Granite Ridge" desktop processors, but also EPYC "Turin" server processors.
Sources:
High Yield YT (Twitter), HotHardware
AMD is giving its next-gen desktop processors the Ryzen 9000 series processor model numbering, as it used the Ryzen 8000 series for its recently announced Socket AM5 desktop APUs based on the "Hawk Point" monolithic silicon. "Granite Ridge" will be a chiplet-based processor, much like the Ryzen 7000 series "Raphael." In fact, it will even retain the same 6 nm client I/O die (cIOD) as "Raphael," with some possible revisions made to increase its native DDR5 memory frequency (up from the current DDR5-5200), and improve its memory overclocking capabilities. It's being reported that DDR5-6400 could be the new "sweetspot" memory speed for these processors, up from the current DDR5-6000.
The "Zen 5" CPU core is expected by AMD to achieve a 10-15 percent IPC uplift over "Zen 4," which should put its gaming performance roughly comparable to those of Ryzen 7000X3D series processors, but without the 3D Vertical Cache, yielding higher headroom for clock speeds and overclocking. High Yield YT believes that a May-June launch of Ryzen 9000 "Granite Ridge" could give AMD free reign over the DIY gaming desktop market until Intel comes around to launch its next-generation Core "Arrow Lake-S" desktop processor in the Socket LGA1851 package, some time in September-October 2024, setting the stage for Ryzen 9000X3D processors by CES (January 2025).
It was recently reported that "Zen 5" processors are already in mass production, although this could refer to the "Eldora" CCD that makes its way not just to the "Granite Ridge" desktop processors, but also EPYC "Turin" server processors.
85 Comments on More AMD Ryzen 9000 "Zen 5" Desktop Processor Details Emerge
It will still be the same as integrated Thunderbolt on motherboards now, i.e. that you need cables from the graphics card to the I/O shield inputs to run graphics over the USB4 interface.
Beginning at around 7600 c34-c36 to 7800 c36-c38, dual CCD chips can match gaming performance achievable by 6000-6400 setups and get the added bandwidth benefits in any other software than can take advantage of it (primary trade offs being memory training and finding a mobo that can actually run it boot to boot).
Sadly there are few viable motherboards that can run 2:1 frequencies above 7600 reliably. The Gene is pretty much your only option due to AIBs refusal to make 2dimm boards available (no tachyon release, no apex, no unify).
1.16C with 64m L3 xpu to be a 6GHZ monster,with PPT lower than 250 W,no more than 300W,wind cooling is essential for users require stability for 5 year to submit a official consume in China.
2.APUs are not urge for too much cores,but integrated graphics must be strong enough,even a 4C8T APU is acceptable.A 4C8T 5GHz all zen5 APU with 12CU,which starts with lower than 149USD seems perfect.Cheap APUs absolutely will be able to gain some favor,most of CPUs today are too much for common gamers.
3.X3D version needs to be lower to 6C12T.Most important is the price.We need G3D,at least something like 5600x3d.
4.Upgrade that d**n fclk.APUs needs a better memory frequency provide,even 6400mhz cannot fulfill 7840HS,it needs more.APUs with integrated high speed memory or seperated Gmem for integrated graphics seems nice,but it shouldn't too expensive.
I'm counting on it to retire my R5 5600 for already 4-year-used.Wish this time it can get something really inspring.
How about a more affordable (but decent) motherboard selection? Things still look a bit pricy to me, compared to how AMD platforms have been in the past (and compared to LGA1700).If you need more bandwidth for your workload, then there is always 4/8C Threadrippers and Xeon-Ws.Do you mean L2 or L3?
More L2 could be useful, but more L3 is mostly useful for poorly optimized code.
But cache efficiency always comes down the specific characteristics of the architecture, and unless you have in-depth knowledge of the Zen 5 design and performance, you couldn't make much of a qualified assesment. Cache has increased and decreased between generations before, and one cache configuration may favor latency, while others favor hitrate or bandwidth. If for instance a new architecture have a very different design, a differently configured cache might be beneficial, even if it's smaller than strongly opinioned forum warriors might want. ;)
www.techpowerup.com/review/klevv-cras-v-rgb-ddr5-6400-cl32-2x-16-gb/6.html
You'll see a nice boost in synthetic benches but in real world work loads there is hardly any difference going over 6000 for Zen4 dual CCD or 1 CCD.
I think you're mistaking the increase from uncore/IF bus or latency improvements from clocking the RAM high with tight (c34-36 + tight secondary/tertiaries at 7800 is FAIRLY tight for AMD right now, Intel too) timings for bandwidth gains.
The caches on these chips are all quite large, low latency, and fast so its not surprising that they're not all that limited by bandwidth.
If data does not directly go from RAM to VRAM, but through CPU infinity fabric, then its not a good design as infinity fabric is very limited (32GB/s write, 64GB/s read, per ccd).
But we're not.
Gains are extremely minimal past 6000. Even all the way to 8000.
Unless of course you can also minimize the timings and crank the uncore/IF bus clocks....but that primarily effects latency NOT bandwidth.
BZ has a vid on this, for both AMD and Intel, showing virtually 0 gains in performance with overclocking DDR5 if you don't also tighten timings for instance for this reason.
The extra bandwidth can certainly help the iGPU on the Zen4/5 APU's of course but iGPU's aren't Zen4/5 CPU cores!Even top end video cards are barely effected by PCIe 3 vs PCIe 4 (which is double the bandwidth) or PCIe 5 (double 4) so your example here for 'IF bus/bandwidth is limited' isn't making any sense.
If anything games are typically more limited by the latency of the PCIe bus (which is high) not the IF bus/system RAM bandwidth!
The stuff that will be limited by the IF bus or bandwidth on AM5 is the stuff that is bandwidth limited pretty much all the time on all platforms so its irrelevant to talk about it in a practical sense here. Especially if you want to talk about common desktop apps like gaming.
Synthetics aside, there is absolutely a benefit to increased bandwidth which would be application dependent.
I’ve spent hundreds of hours testing ddr5 6000-8000 on my 7900X3D. Dual CCD is a different ball game when it comes to memory overclocking benefits.
I can however easily find vids and benches of 7950's getting tested in games at 6400 or 7200 or 7800 or 8000 and usually getting hardly any benefit over 6000 at 1080p.*
I can also find benches of 7950's getting tested at 6400 here at this site, I linked you one, and showing little to no improvement over 6000 in nearly all real world apps.
If Zen4 was really all that bandwidth limited, in either CCD config, then benches showing LARGE gains (ie. 20, 50, 100%+) should be typical and easy to find. Instead all that is out there are typically very minor 1% here 2% there gains for 6400+ speeds, outside of a couple of interesting outliers, and of course some synth benches but they're synth benches so who cares.
*note that if they also minimize the timings then yes you start to see some gains BUUUT adjusting timings doesn't effect bandwidth, it effects latency
Contrast this with the memory controller in the IO die for Zen 2 which achieves over 92% of theoretical bandwidth.
Contrast this with the 7840HS whose memory controller can utilize 91% of theoretical bandwidth from a higher latency setup (DDR5 5600 CL46).
Games are probably the LEAST applicable piece of software here, and not really at all what I’m talking about (as I also exclusively stated “application dependent”).
PS: I owned one would be shocked if I am wrong here.