Monday, May 20th 2019

U.S. Tech Industry, Including Google, Microsoft, Intel, and Qualcomm, Ban Huawei

The United States tech industry has overnight dealt a potentially fatal blow to Chinese electronics giant Huawei, by boycotting the company. The companies are establishing compliance with a recent Executive Order passed by President Donald Trump designed to "stop the import, sale, and use of equipment and services by foreign companies based in countries that are potential adversaries to U.S. interests," particularly information technology security. Google has announced that it will no longer allow Huawei to license Android, and will stop updates and Google Play access to Huawei smartphones. Huawei can still equip its phones with open-source Android, but it cannot use Google's proprietary software, including Google Play Store, Chrome, and all the other Google apps. Intel decided to no longer supply processors and other hardware to Huawei, for use in its laptops and server products. Sales of AMD processors will stop, too. Qualcomm-Broadcom have decided to stop supply of mobile SoCs and network PHYs, respectively. Microsoft decided to stop licensing Huawei to use Windows and Office products.

The ban is a consequence of the U.S. Government placing Huawei on a list of banned entities, forcing all U.S. companies to abandon all trade with it, without prior approval from the Department of Commerce. Trade cuts both ways, and not only are U.S. firms banned from buying from Huawei, they're also banned from selling to it. Huawei "buys from" over 30 U.S. companies, (for example, Windows licenses from Microsoft). CNN reports that U.S. firms could lose up to $11 billion in revenues.
Huawei's origins trace back to its founder Ren Zhengfei, who started out his tech career as part of the People's Liberation Army Information Technology R&D department, and is accused by his detractors of remaining loyal to the Chinese state in a manner that compromises security of its Western customers. Huawei was poised to become the world's #1 smartphone vendor in terms of sales.

President Trump as part of the Executive Order, writes "I further find that the unrestricted acquisition or use in the United States of information and communications technology or services designed, developed, manufactured, or supplied by persons owned by, controlled by, or subject to the jurisdiction or direction of foreign adversaries augments the ability of foreign adversaries to create and exploit vulnerabilities in information and communications technology or services, with potentially catastrophic effects, and thereby constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security, foreign policy, and economy of the United States."

The definition of an adversarial entity is open to interpretation, and Huawei may not be the only foreign company that qualifies as one. Since trading opened Monday morning in Asian markets, stock prices of listed Chinese tech firm ZTE fell 10 percent. Huawei is a private company. Across the pond, European governments remain neutral to Huawei. The UK and European Commission have separately conducted investigations into allegations of Huawei posing a data-security risk, and have both concluded to have seen no merit to the accusations. The EU is Huawei's largest market for smartphones outside China, and an abrupt stoppage of Google services impacting functionality of Huawei smartphones in the EU exposes Google to EU anti-trust regulators who have already penalized the company hundreds of millions of Euros in the past for abusing its market dominance.

To date, the Trump administration has not put out specific evidence against Huawei in a U.S. court of law, or the public domain. Washington Post in a May 19 editorial highlights this lack of transparency. "Neither the United States nor any of its allies has produced a 'smoking gun' proving that Chinese intelligence uses Huawei technology to penetrate other countries' networks. Under the circumstances, it is legitimate for the United States to seek greater transparency from Huawei, both about its ownership and its strategic objectives in the global market," it reads. WaPo further goes on to comment that the exclusion of Huawei will impact the deployment of 5G telecommunication technology around the world, enabling driverless cars, telemedicine, next-generation unmanned mechanized warfare, and the Internet of Things.

Huawei declined to comment on the development, but has mitigations for this ban. Android has been significantly forked by Chinese smartphone vendors with open-source software, and Huawei could do something similar. The company already uses its own apps, games, and content marketplace rivaling Google Play; and almost all Google apps have alternatives in China. The company makes its own SoCs and doesn't rely on Qualcomm. The Chinese government already does not use Windows, and this development could help in the proliferation of Linux distributions. A decline in the sales and use of Microsoft Windows could be China's retaliatory move. The country has already taken tectonic market access-denial actions against U.S. firms such as Facebook, Google, and Twitter, and nothing stops it from censoring Microsoft. Intel processors continue to form the backbone of client-computing, but it's only a matter of time before Chinese firms mass-produce x86 processors of their own.

Update May 20th: Facing regulatory backlash from Huawei devices abruptly losing functionality from loss of Google Play services, Google has in a statement to Reuters confirmed that Google Play app updates and validation services will continue to be offered to existing users of Huawei devices. "For users of our services, Google Play and the security protections from Google Play Protect will continue to function on existing Huawei devices," the spokesperson said, without giving further details.

Update May 21st: Goldman Sachs has done some math, looking into how revenue of U.S. companies will be affected by the loss of their customer Huawei. Quite interesting numbers, and surprising how much it affects AMD.

Update May 21st: The US Department of Commerce has granted Huwei an extension of 90 days to get their affairs in order, to minimize the impact on Huawei's customers.

Update May 23rd: ARM, the company behind the IP required to build ARM-architecture-based microprocessors (which are used in most of Huawei's products), has now stopped working with Huawei, too.
Sources: BBC, The Verge, Android Authority
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146 Comments on U.S. Tech Industry, Including Google, Microsoft, Intel, and Qualcomm, Ban Huawei

#76
Sugarush
On a more positive note - I really enjoyed the reference to Star Trek NG
Posted on Reply
#77
M2B
R0H1TMuslims generally see themselves as part of a single unified body called Ummah & an attack on any of them is like an attack on all, except in case of Uighurs I guess.
I'm living in Iran and at least in my country that's not the case.
Belief in Islam is getting weaker and weaker here but of course the government doesn't like to show the truth.
Posted on Reply
#78
R0H1T
I know that's a bit of a generalization but that's what I hear from Muslims in India or our immediate neighbors. Which is to say that the more religious you are the more inclined you'd be to the concept of Ummah, at least IMO & observation. The less religious Muslims are indeed more rational, moderate & peaceful than extremists on either end (left or right) of the spectrum.
Posted on Reply
#79
GoldenX
R0H1TThe less religious Muslims are indeed more rational, moderate & peaceful than extremists on either end (left or right) of the spectrum.
Isn't that true for all religions?
Posted on Reply
#80
R0H1T
GoldenXIsn't that true for all religions?
True but like I said if someone attacks a Muslim, the more religious majority perceive that as an attack on their religion & Ummah. That's not the case with most other religions.
Posted on Reply
#81
Vayra86
M2BI'm living in Iran and at least in my country that's not the case.
Belief in Islam is getting weaker and weaker here but of course the government doesn't like to show the truth.
Well, I do believe Iran is also one of the most progressive Islamic countries in the region. You already were making the transition and then things took an unfortunate turn...

Either way, I do still believe we should get back on topic. Its a small miracle this exists here as it is :)
Posted on Reply
#82
R-T-B
64KDo you not think the exact same things were going on under Obama?
Why does it have to be partisan? I don't care who does it those kind of programs spying on US without warrants citizens I oppose. That included Obama.
Posted on Reply
#83
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
SugarushOn a more positive note - I really enjoyed the reference to Star Trek NG
TOS/TNG are OG Star Trek that continues to inspire. Discovery is for people grappling with identity crises.
Posted on Reply
#84
R-T-B
64KMeanwhile in the real world hardly a week goes by that Muslims aren't killing innocent people en masse.
True of most major religions. See the Lords Liberation Army as a counter example. Great folks. /s
R0H1TThe less religious Muslims are indeed more rational, moderate & peaceful than extremists on either end (left or right) of the spectrum.
This is true. It's because a lot of old religious texts (including the bible) heartily endorse violence to solve social issues. Taking them literally is dangerous, and that's extremism.

Lets just not fall into the us vs them mentality in regards to religion. Fact: You can be a peacful or violent muslim/christisn/athiest and it really is that simple.

Oh wow, topic, sorry...
Posted on Reply
#85
Tatty_Two
Gone Fishing
It is beyond me how this news topic has moved from a quite specific news piece to Muslim extremists, terror attacks from both external and internal organisations, the left, the right and dead people, so if I may, I suggest we move back on topic because reading much of this last page or so has been a painful experience.... thank you.
Posted on Reply
#86
rtwjunkie
PC Gaming Enthusiast
So, meanwhile back in Huawei land... :D
Posted on Reply
#87
phill
I like my phone !! :D :D
Posted on Reply
#88
Rahnak
I'm eagerly waiting for China's move now. I'm all up for halting exports of US products made in China. Got my popcorn ready.
Posted on Reply
#89
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
RahnakI'm eagerly waiting for China's move now.
I expect it to be outlawing Windows 10 and promoting the state-kosher version of Ubuntu (Kylin).

Posted on Reply
#90
Rahnak
btarunrI expect it to be outlawing Windows 10 and promoting the state-kosher version of Ubuntu (Kylin).
Windows telemetry does give them an excuse, I think. But it doesn't feel "splashy" enough, imo. I would be hilarious if they went after Apple, not to mention higher headline value/impact. And it'd be a tit for tat kind of move too.
Posted on Reply
#91
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
R-T-BThat... is the sad outcome I see really. East vs West closed and signed OS world in the future.

You want to write your own OS? Ha!
The reason I expect MS Windows to take the fall is because it is America's greatest tech export consistently for the past 3 decades, and has "halo" value as something that has monopolized client computing world over. Huawei is supposed to be the pride of China's high-tech industry, their "halo" brand. The Chinese response will hence be political as much as it will be economic.
Posted on Reply
#92
R-T-B
btarunrThe reason I expect MS Windows to take the fall is because it is America's greatest tech export consistently for the past 3 decades, and has "halo" value as something that has monopolized client computing world over. Huawei is supposed to be the pride of China's high-tech industry, their "halo" brand. The Chinese response will hence be political as much as it will be economic.
And I know they've been pushing this. Believe it or not I possess an early Loongson developer kit pilfered from a code bounty project, one of their first homegrown MIPS cpu families. It's old but one of the things I had to do to earn it for free was port some open source software to gentoo/MIPS. It was long ago but I believe the port was for a vector library.

They are really looking at a linux basterdized MIPS angle. Probably because MIPS and windows don't mix. Weirdly enough they at one point were recruiting western programers to do so and paying primarily in free devkits.

And this was circa 2012.

PS: I still have the devkit, if it's of any interest to TPU. Was about to throw it away. It's a single core 800Mhz mips about the size of a textbook with a 120W "Great Wall" power adapter. Free for postage. It may need it's bios chip reflashed. Shows evidence of an early AMD partnership too, as they made the chipset.
Posted on Reply
#94
timta2
Seems like a lot of dishonesty, corruption, and corporate protectionism, to me.
Posted on Reply
#96
R0H1T
I think they already do ~ wars, of any kind, are super profitable businesses :toast:
Posted on Reply
#97
Ubersonic
The USA is currently playing with fire big time, right now it's esentially exploiting it's historical friendship with the EU in order to protect it from any repricussions to it's isolationist/protectionist attacks on China/Chinese companies.

Luckily for the USA (sadly for the rest of the world) it looks like it's going to get away with it for the forseeable future, however it's untenable for this to last forever, sooner or later we may see that the other countries of the world become fed up and we could potentially see the EU team up with the BRICs nations to sanction the USA and force it to engage properly with global trade instead of using it's influence/friendships to attack economic rivals it cannot compete with on a level footing.
Posted on Reply
#98
SRB151
Jozsef DornyeiThis is a strong step kicking Huawei. Might even bankrupt them.
Strategically this is a very bad move.
Chinese companies will not buy US technology parts and software as soon as they can develop anything what works instead.
As China is the largest economy on the planet this move will kick US tech companies from China and all Chinese product.
In 10 years time the US tech industry will be a shadow of todays strength.
Um, what do you think China 2025 or whatever year was all about? They've been determined to steal or extort tech out of every company they can for years, at which point they'll dump competitive parts on the market and put the US companies out of business anyway, as well as being self sufficient. You need look no further than the metals industry for the template. Everyone is crying about steel because we're dependant on Chinese steel and the American steel industry is a shadow of what it was. There's something to be said for long term thinking over instant gratification.
Posted on Reply
#99
R-T-B
SRB151American steel industry is a shadow of what it was.
I feel that's inevitable and the reason is simple: Young people in America today do not want to work in Steel Mills.
Posted on Reply
#100
FordGT90Concept
"I go fast!1!11!1!"
I think China's response will be to shift assets to ZTE and let Huawei burn. Huawei is beyond redemption at this point and no one, save China, is going to cut them any slack.
btarunrThe reason I expect MS Windows to take the fall is because it is America's greatest tech export consistently for the past 3 decades, and has "halo" value as something that has monopolized client computing world over. Huawei is supposed to be the pride of China's high-tech industry, their "halo" brand. The Chinese response will hence be political as much as it will be economic.
How many copies of Windows in China are actually legitimate (Edit: 5%)? Investors don't seem very concerned which strongly suggests not many.


Reuters put up a lovely graphic of which US companies are mostly impacted by this:
fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/editorcharts/USA-CHINA-HUAWEI/0H001GSE93H2/index.html

As you can see, only NeoPhotonics is really vulnerable. Huawei is losing access to ~23% of their parts.
Posted on Reply
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