Wednesday, September 27th 2023
Report: Qualcomm Forces OEMs to Use Its Own PMICs for Oryon SoC
According to SemiAccurate, Qualcomm is currently navigating through many challenges with its Oryon SoC for laptops. The current problem is that Qualcomm is insisting on integrating its own PMICs (Power Management Integrated Circuits), which are inherently designed for cell phones, causing significant compatibility and efficiency issues. This approach is reported to have led to escalated costs and disagreements with OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers), seemingly hindering Qualcomm's foothold in the laptop sector. These PMICs are highlighted as unsuitable and highly priced, requiring the adoption of high-density interconnect (HDI) PCBs engineered explicitly for cell phones, thus not designed to meet the current requirements of laptops optimally. The subsequent spike in production costs has ignited conflicts with OEMs, with several contemplating withdrawing from the project.
In response to the rising tensions, Qualcomm is allegedly providing financial compensation to the OEMs, potentially leading to selling SoCs at cost. The only good thing is the reported success of Nuvia-based Oryon SoC. The silicon is perfect at A0 stepping, and performance is reportedly good. However, power usage and efficiency are still in question. Forcing OEMs to use proprietary PMICs will likely have far-reaching impacts on Qualcomm's market strategies and relationships with OEMs. With disputes like this, we expect that Qualcomm-powered laptops are nearing availability, and we could see them in the coming months.
Source:
SemiAccurate
In response to the rising tensions, Qualcomm is allegedly providing financial compensation to the OEMs, potentially leading to selling SoCs at cost. The only good thing is the reported success of Nuvia-based Oryon SoC. The silicon is perfect at A0 stepping, and performance is reportedly good. However, power usage and efficiency are still in question. Forcing OEMs to use proprietary PMICs will likely have far-reaching impacts on Qualcomm's market strategies and relationships with OEMs. With disputes like this, we expect that Qualcomm-powered laptops are nearing availability, and we could see them in the coming months.
14 Comments on Report: Qualcomm Forces OEMs to Use Its Own PMICs for Oryon SoC
Basically are you telling that PMU's that QUALCOMM offers... like millions of mobile devices use now... somehow ain't suitable for a laptop... the catch is about PCB costs...
I agree that you have to force quality to achieve desired performance, energy savings to compete with Mac, that's the point using an ARM based laptop. Those OEMs just want to create another shit performing Chromebook style e-waste.
I mean, if power delivery was designed for phones, it must be very efficient and very compact.
I can understand the point of price being higher, but i don't understand what are they talking about when they mention efficiency.
there is a chance they want RTX titan in their laptops and so power delivery designed for phones can't do 1kW. Is that what they are whining about?
www.ncabgroup.com/hdi-high-density-interconnect-pcb/
Laptops however, will spend considerably more power just by being on. So the PMICs likely aren't designed for those kind of loads.
They might also have issues with maximum load that a laptop can have, which is far higher than that of a phone and that could necessitate more equipments, power stages and etc.
That said, MTK. STMicro and Rockchip are example of other Arm chip makers that produce their own PMICs that pair with their own SoCs.Could, but won't, due to cost for Qualcomm. It's easier to let their partners eat the cost.
In fact, I suspect at this point Qualcomm is hoping for the latter, that some OEMs figure out a way to make it work well for laptop usage, instead of them having to do it themselves. Problem is, OEMs might pull out if it doesn't seem financially viable sooner than later. Moreso when such things should have already been ironed out by Qualcomm.
For example first generation 5G phones used stacked PCB approach and some still does. There is absolutely no reason laptops cannot use hybrid approach and use small areas of advanced PCBs combined with larger areas for dumber devices... it just looks like blackmail. Qualcomm is only afraid to end up with that silicon in warehouses, because the OEM's act like princeses. In Phone market there ain't such things, because the competition is more fierce, some will not complain, make a product and sell it, while others will look in the ceiling and scratch their testicles.
Regarding the PMU power capabilities, there are breed like gaming phones, using the same PMU's, those eat around 15-25W+ while loaded... like Genshin impact or emulators etc... if you think that that PMU ain't enough even for ARM laptop, I dunno... IMHO it is acutally for the battery life... it must suffice for weeks, if you need raw power take x86... that's the whole point imho. We do not need any halfarsed ARM devices at Raspberry Pi 4 performance and Pentium III power consumption figures. You can buy those already.
It depends on the sweet spot. Your ambitions is to drive full throttle, yet having no speed... like in cars... more mpg does not mean more speed. ARM is designed to be more efficient and thus I would pick it as device for great battery life. You don't need more to watch YT etc, all your care is less charging and more productivity. ARM is for that.
And Stacked PCB is harder to make? From what place you took the argument? Considering it has been done for ages... I mean... like since ever, because PCBs done on porcelain were like the mother of all? As soon you have PCB layout for another component... it totally doesn't matter what it is? Another PCB or tequila shot soldered on some pads?