mkppoYeah..no it isn't. When the 4070Ti launched, the 7900XT was already $850 and falling. But 7900XT is anywhere between 8-13% faster. Do the math.

Now you're going to say the MSRP is $900. Well it doesn't matter for shit, because it legit doesn't matter when comparing the launch of 4070Ti.

Also, i'm not sure about the way less features part. DLSS2/3? Sure, but what else? Relive is just as good as Shadowplay, AMD's control center is leaps and bounds better than the shitfest from nvidia that I have to deal with. Some extra features, sure i'll give them that. But don't make it sound like nvidia has a ton more features when they really don't.

kapone32Good for you. I guess you were getting random shutdowns as the MSI Gaming channel has a setup like yours and it was pulling 1300 Watts at times from the wall. There is also the fact that with the money I saved vs a 4090 I bought a 7900X3D and X670E board. Of course you would refuse to believe that my performance is good because it consumes half the power vs yours but we have different parameters for our purchase. I try to get the most performance per dollar.

fevgatosWhy would I be getting shutdowns? I have no idea what you are talking about. My system draws 550w max from the wall while playing tlou, and of course it absolutely demolishes yours in performance. We can test it if you want to

fevgatosAt the 4070ti launch the 7900xt was between 120 and 140 euros more expensive. I'm not talking about msrp, I'm talking about actual pricing in Europe. So yes, the 4070ti was even better at raster per dollar, on top of better rt performance, much lower power draw etc.

Nvidia does have a ton more features. It supports both dlss and fsr, both fg and now fsr 3, Cuda, reflex. Abd the list goes on


Why would I be getting shutdowns? I have no idea what you are talking about. My system draws 550w max from the wall while playing tlou, and of course it absolutely demolishes yours in performance. We can test it if you want to

mkppoWell in the US it certainly wasn't the case and i'm not sure how 7900xt was more than 100 euro more expensive as that's larger than the difference in MSRP. Either way, reflex is basically pointless without a monitor to support it and even then it's pretty pointless and AMD anti-lag works pretty well. List goes on? In your 'list' I only see DLSS and CUDA which are well known but FSR works almost as well in general. So uh..CUDA? Is that the list that goes on?

dyonoctisThe 7900XT launched at 1049€ in Europe vs 910€ for the 4070ti. The EU market is special to say the least.

kapone32You are entitled to your own opinion but since you don't live with me your comment is just plain conjecture.

fevgatosAt the 4070ti launch the 7900xt was between 120 and 140 euros more expensive. I'm not talking about msrp, I'm talking about actual pricing in Europe. So yes, the 4070ti was even better at raster per dollar, on top of better rt performance, much lower power draw etc.

Nvidia does have a ton more features. It supports both dlss and fsr, both fg and now fsr 3, Cuda, reflex. Abd the list goes on

fevgatosExactly, and so was yours :D

AusWolf120 euros for +12 GB VRAM is a no-brainer at this price point.

As for features, why would you count on DLSS/FSR version X if your game runs well at native resolution? Because it does with a card like that. Cuda... Sure, for what? Reflex... what's that?

kapone32I don't know if you can do this with Nvidia but here is my Gaming Panel. These are all at 4K 144hz. As you can see I have no issues with any Games running at high FPS. Here is my CPU power and here is GPU power

fevgatosWhy would you use dlss?

Well, for starters, higher fps.
Or you want to use rt, in which case you need dlss.
Or you want to play a game like hogwarts that is incredibly cpu bound even on a 13900k / 7800x 3d, so the only way to stay above 60 in all areas of the game is with FG..
Or you want to improve the native image quality which in some cases is horrible due to bad TAA implementation.
Or you want to lower power draw.

Plenty of reasons, I'm using it on my 4090, so sure as hell I'd be using it on a 4070ti

AusWolfHigher FPS that you don't need because you have high enough FPS on your expensive card anyway.
If you need FG to stay above 60 FPS, then your latency must be horrible.
Improved image quality with an upscaled low-res image? Let's just say, I'll believe it when I see it.
Lower power draw? I've got a permanent 60 FPS cap for that, so I never have to lower my image quality in the first place.

Any more reasons? ;) I see the point of DLSS/FSR on a low/mid-tier card, but FG is just a gimmick. It's unnecessary at high FPS, and it presents latency issues at low FPS.

AusWolfHigher FPS that you don't need because you have high enough FPS on your expensive card anyway.
If you need FG to stay above 60 FPS, then your latency must be horrible.
Improved image quality with an upscaled low-res image? Let's just say, I'll believe it when I see it.
Lower power draw? I've got a permanent 60 FPS cap for that, so I never have to lower my image quality in the first place.

Any more reasons? ;) I see the point of DLSS/FSR on a low/mid-tier card, but FG is just a gimmick. It's unnecessary at high FPS, and it presents latency issues at low FPS.

fevgatosHow do you know you don't need higher fps? What does that even mean? There are games coming out right now that struggle even on a 4090. Without rt that is.

fevgatosYour latency is perfectly fine due to reflex. Fg + reflex = lower latency than your amd card has running native.

fevgatosHwunboxed tested it and yes, in most cases dlss improves image quality due to poor taa implementation. Have you never seen a game and think that it looks like a blurry mess? That's due to TAA. Sotr, rdr2 and to an extent cyberpunk are examples of that. Dlss fixes that issue.

Vayra86I can't help but shake the feeling Nvidia's featureset advantage is a problem looking for solutions rather than vice versa.

AusWolfThat means, there isn't a single game that doesn't reach 60 FPS on my 6750 XT at 1080p right now. When that happens, I'll just lower a setting or two, or consider using FSR while I'm planning my next upgrade.


Ah, so Reflex is the Nvidia equivalent of Radeon Anti-Lag! Got ya. ;)


They can test whatever they want, if I don't see it with my own eyes, I won't believe it, it's that simple. I put 100+ hours into Cyberpunk using a 2070 with DLSS Quality, and no, my image quality wasn't better than native.

AusWolfThat means, there isn't a single game that doesn't reach 60 FPS on my 6750 XT at 1080p right now. When that happens, I'll just lower a setting or two, or consider using FSR while I'm planning my next upgrade.


Ah, so Reflex is the Nvidia equivalent of Radeon Anti-Lag! Got ya. ;)


They can test whatever they want, if I don't see it with my own eyes, I won't believe it, it's that simple. I put 100+ hours into Cyberpunk using a 2070 with DLSS Quality, and no, my image quality wasn't better than native.


That's it! :) That's why I call them gimmicks instead of features. They're something no one ever needed, but now can't live without all of a sudden. Like a new drug. And by upping some version with every new generation of graphics cards released, Nvidia is only making people more and more addicted, and ensuring that they pay for the next shiny toy, regardless of its price."

Vayra86@phanbuey had a pretty clear example of how the upscale improves IQ in Baldurs Gate 3. Its definitely more crisp. It also has a more artificial look because it looks so crisp. Its similar to a sharpening effect at normal view distance, except with a much higher fidelity. So there is the impression of more detail, certainly, but its a bit (to me at least) like looking at oversatured images. It looks surreal, even if it pops that much more.

AusWolfThat means, there isn't a single game that doesn't reach 60 FPS on my 6750 XT at 1080p right now. When that happens, I'll just lower a setting or two, or consider using FSR while I'm planning my next upgrade.


Ah, so Reflex is the Nvidia equivalent of Radeon Anti-Lag! Got ya. ;)

AusWolfI don't know. Cyberpunk at DLSS Quality seemed simply just a tad blurry to me.

Vayra86"Reflex"(tm)... is hilarious indeed, its just frame pre-gen / prediction set at 0 or 1 frames but with a new splash of marketing. Nvidia's had that since what, Pascal? AMD has it too... gotta love the fancy stickers eh. And since Nvidia sells those features at premium, every buyer will speak of them because otherwise they've wasted their precious extra money on stuff they don't use.

And they have to talk about it a lot because otherwise nobody can see how they're having an advantage :)

fevgatosNo, reflex is not the same as antilag or prerendered frames. The concept is of course similar, but it's not the same thing. It combines prerendered flames with a non static fps cap. You get much lower latency with reflex than with antilag, igorslab tested it. Reflex at 60 fps gets you lower latency than an amd card with antilag at 200 fps. That is insane.

Vayra86I learned a thing thanks :) Still that doesn't sound awfully different than what Fast Sync had at one point, right? I certainly do hope it's better than that, because that was stuttery and not quite as dynamic as you'd want.

Still, the gist is, you keep stacking more and more (support required!) added technologies on top of each other because new Nvidia 'solutions' introduce 'new problems' to fix. Is there an improvement... sure. But only with several layers of TLC. Reality checks are nice... I don't need reflex, because I don't need FG, and 'native latency' is already low enough.

fevgatosNo, reflex isn't anti lag. Reflex is equivalent to hyper RX that is still being developed. FG + reflex has similar latency to what you are getting with an amd card playing natively. Surely you have no latency issues right? So why do you assume you will have issues with FG.

fevgatosBecause you are at 1080p I assume. I can post you some screenshots on 4k and you'll see that dlss looks much better. Furthermore you have to take into account that it also increases your framerate. If you want to make a proper comparison of image quality, you should target the same framerate.

So for example, try native 720p vs 1080p DLSS Q. Framerate will be pretty similar but the dlss image will be like, tons better. So what that means really is that, you can upgrade your monitor to 1440p, use dlss and end up with same framerate but much better image quality than you are getting right now with your native 1080p monitor. If you don't find that actually impressive then I don't know man

fevgatosNo, reflex is not the same as antilag or prerendered frames. The concept is of course similar, but it's not the same thing. It combines prerendered flames with a non static fps cap. You get much lower latency with reflex than with antilag, igorslab tested it. Reflex at 60 fps gets you lower latency than an amd card with antilag at 200 fps. That is insane.

fevgatosWell if you are not into competitive games reflex is useless. But the same can be said about fg, do you really care about the increased latency that much? Especially when you are using reflex?

I kid you not, on a game like hogwarts, I couldn't enjoy that game without FG. It was unplayable for me, and not because of the gpu performance but because of the cpu performance. There were areas in the game that even a fully oced tuned 12900k couldn't keep 60. FG just transformed the game to a much smoother experience.

fevgatosWell if you are not into competitive games reflex is useless. But the same can be said about fg, do you really care about the increased latency that much? Especially when you are using reflex?

I kid you not, on a game like hogwarts, I couldn't enjoy that game without FG. It was unplayable for me, and not because of the gpu performance but because of the cpu performance. There were areas in the game that even a fully oced tuned 12900k couldn't keep 60. FG just transformed the game to a much smoother experience.

AusWolfAs far as I understand, Hypr-RX is not a thing, but rather a combination of things. So what is Reflex exactly? I'll have to look for some official documentation because I'm curious.


That's not how it works. If I'm playing at 1080p, I will never ever in my whole life compare to a 720p image. My comparison is 1080p native vs 1080p DLSS/FSR. In this comparison, native always wins in terms of quality.

Vayra86Its a bit of a circle we're going into. Why would I care about the doubled frames if it doesn't improve latency? That's exactly why its a problem looking for solutions and not vice versa. If I already had 30 FPS native with ditto latency, reflex won't save me if I use FG to get 60, and if I already had 60 FPS, I can do without both.

Latency on competitive games should already be low enough; if you game at 120+ FPS there really isn't much to gain, if anything. There is no tangible advantage there, only a perceived advantage, its fully in placebo territory much like a 360hz panel.

As for Hogwarts... myeah. Whatever. Any game that fully eats a CPU needs a reality check. Its a turd anyway :) If that edge case makes FG a feature that can't be missed... I think we're looking too hard into it, its not a perk of FG, its just shitty code.

fevgatosOk let me put it another way. You are about to buy a monitor, and you can't decide between a 1440p or a 4k (or, a 1080p vs a 1440p). Buying the higher resolution monitor and using dlss (or fsr for that matter) will get you similar framerate but better image quality than buying the lower resolution on monitor and playing natively.

That's mainly the reason I went for a 4k monitor.

fevgatosRegarding FG, you'd be impressed by how optically fluid games are with it. Say you are watching someone else play the game, for you as a spectator the game will be much much smoother with FG. If you are the one playing the game then yes, it doesn't improve and usually it offers worse input latency, but it's not that had as people claim. You can get a game from 70 fps all the way up to 120 to max your monitor with no noticeable latency increase.