Tuesday, October 1st 2024

AMD Announces New AGESA 1.2.0.2, 105W cTDP for 9700X and 9600X, Intercore Latency Improvements

AMD today made four key announcements for its Ryzen 9000 series "Granite Ridge" desktop processors based on the "Zen 5" microarchitecture. These mainly aim to improve upon the products as originally launched in August. To begin with, AMD announced a 105 W cTDP (configurable TDP) mode for the Ryzen 7 9700X and Ryzen 7 9600X processors, with full warranty coverage. This setting can be enabled in the UEFI setup program of a motherboard running its latest version of UEFI firmware, which encapsulates the AGESA ComboAM5 PI 1.2.0.2 microcode. The setting raises the PPT (package power tracking) value of the 9700X and 9600X to 140 W, and treats them as if they were 105 W TDP processors. These chips were originally launched by AMD with 65 W (88 W PPT), and as reviewers quickly found out, unlocking power improves performance at stock clock speeds, as it improves boost frequency residence of these chips.

Next up, is the AGESA PI 1.2.0.2 microcode itself, which introduces the 105 W cTDP mode for the 9700X and 9600X along with warranty coverage, which we just talked about; plus works to improve the core-to-core latency on the Ryzen 9 9900X and Ryzen 9 9950X. These are processors with two CPU complex dies (CCDs), each with either 8 or 6 cores enabled. To the software, this is still a single-socket (1P) CPU with 12 or 16 cores. Although some awareness of the dual-CCD architecture is added to the OS scheduler to help it localize certain kinds of workloads (such as games) to a single CCD, reviewers noted that core-to-core latency on the dual-CCD chips was still too high, which should affect performance when a software's threads are migrating between cores, or if a workload is multithreaded, such as media encoding. AMD addressed exactly this with the new AGESA PI 1.2.0.2 update.
AMD describes the technical aspect of what was causing undesirably high core-to-core latency and erroneous core-parking during multithreaded workloads:
This was mainly due to some corner cases where it takes two transactions to both read, and write, when information is shared across cores on different parts of a Ryzen 9 9000 series processor. However, we've been working on optimizing this since the launch of the 9000 series. In the new 1.2.0.2 BIOS update, we've managed to cut the number of transactions in half for this use case, which helps reduce core-to-core latency in multi-CCD models.
AMD says that reviewers should still expect high values in core-to-core latency benchmarks, but in practice, performance in multithreaded workloads should improve, which can be verified by benchmarking across a typical set of processor benchmarks. The company says:
we've been working on optimizing this since the launch of the 9000 series. In the new 1.2.0.2 BIOS update, we've managed to cut the number of transactions in half for this use case, which helps reduce core-to-core latency in multi-CCD models. While this will show up on some core-to-core latency benchmarks, the real-world improvement is most noticeable in a very specific gaming scenario: in heavily threaded games that don't trigger core parking. Our lab tests suggest Metro, Starfield, and Borderlands 3 can show some uplift, as well as synthetic tests like 3DMark Time Spy.
Next up, the company added official AMD EXPO support for DDR5-8000. With this generation, AMD introduced support for high DDR5 memory speeds using a 1:2 UCLK:MCLK ratio. We recently did a comprehensive study of how the Ryzen 9 9950X handles DDR5-8000, and whether you should use it over the DDR5-6000 sweetspot frequency. You can read all about it in our Zen 5 Memory Scaling article.

In the following weeks, you can expect memory manufacturers to launch new high-speed DDR5 memory kits with AMD EXPO profiles—speeds such as DDR5-6800, DDR5-7200, DDR5-7600, and DDR5-8000. AMD EXPO is similar to Intel XMP, it is an SPD extension that makes it easy for end-users to enable a memory kit's advertised speeds and timings in the UEFI setup program. EXPO covers all the sub-timings and voltages that are unique to Ryzen processors' memory architecture.
Lastly, motherboards based on the AMD X870E and X870 chipsets should be available to purchase from today. AMD Ryzen 9000 series processors are compatible with AMD 600-series chipset motherboards using a firmware update (which can be done using UEFI BIOS Flashback); but the new crop of motherboards based on AMD 800-series chipset support these processors out of the box, besides introducing a few modern I/O features such as 40 Gbps USB4 and Wi-Fi 7 networking.
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33 Comments on AMD Announces New AGESA 1.2.0.2, 105W cTDP for 9700X and 9600X, Intercore Latency Improvements

#26
izy
What is the difference between enabling PBO and increasing PPT and this new setting for 105W? Does it do something PBO couldn't?
Posted on Reply
#27
LittleBro
I guess the PBO is a bit more sophisticated and a bit risky for this update.

Today's chips tend to boost as much as possible until some limit is met. This works for my Zen 3: when I raise PPT limit without touching anything else, the only difference is that few other cores boost a few hundred MHz more until the CPU package hits the newly set TDP limit or the EDP limit (whatever comes first). I've never tried this myself but maybe if you set 200W TDP limit for 65W CPU, it will try to boost all cores to reach max. boost clock limit and still it may never really reach 200W limit.

With PBO you also change voltage curve and max. boost clock. PBO is not guaranteed and can render your CPU unstable. This could mean another potential fiasco for AMD so I think they will skip using PBO for this update.
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#28
Geofrancis
LittleBroIf you're referring to X3D cache, then you're wrong. X3D cache is exposed to CPU cores in the same manner as regular L3 cache. In other words, 3D cache is in fact regular L3 cache but stacked vertically (three times) rather than being placed planarly.
no im talking about the intercore latency improvemtns that have nothing to do with vcache,
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#29
Chrispy_
AnotherReaderOnly workloads that resulted in relatively low clock speeds at the 65 W TDP saw significant performance increases with PBO. In TPU's review, Blender was the standout with a 15% increase at the cost of more than doubled power consumption. Given that result, the impact of the 105 W setting is unlikely to be significant enough to warrant the higher power consumption.
Well, I guess it's there as a preset option now :)

65W is efficient, 105W is crazily inefficient but 15% faster is faster if that specific workload matters to you - and as always a manual tune with PBO+ and some curve optimiser will likely get those who are willing to tinker the absolute best of both worlds.
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#30
phints
Chrispy_Well, I guess it's there as a preset option now :)

65W is efficient, 105W is crazily inefficient but 15% faster is faster if that specific workload matters to you - and as always a manual tune with PBO+ and some curve optimiser will likely get those who are willing to tinker the absolute best of both worlds.
Agree. 105W TDP + PBO + Curve Optimizer -15 will get you about +10% performance over stock 65W with roughly the same power consumption/thermals as stock. I do something similar even with my 4 year old 5800X, I use PBO + CO -20 and no wattage increase over stock.
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#31
jpvalverde85
ChaneI tried the new FW3.08 AGESA 1.2.0.2 on my ASRock B650I Lighting, but it has a bug which reduced my rear USB-C 10Gbps port to 480Mbps (USB 2.0) speeds. I flashed it back to FW2.10 AGESA 1.1.0.3 and my full port speed returned. There are a few firmware versions in between, but I didn't bother to see if they had the bug or not. I'll stay on FW2.10 for now.
This... I assembled just yesterday an R7 7700 over an Asus Prime B650M-A WIFI, first thing done updating BIOS, loaded the beta one with AGESA 1.2.0.2 and found the same with some USB 3.0 ports, speed degraded to USB 2.0 spec. I can't believe that AM5 still needs so much ironing out after 2 years on the market.
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#32
kapone32
LittleBroAMD tries to play marketing here, to play us to buy new boards - to think that we get support for something new only with newer boards. Don't get fooled.
8000 MT/s on Zen 4/5 is only a very little (meaning negligible) bit faster than 6000 MT/s. That's because of P'o's memory controller unable being to run in 1:1 mode beyond 6400 MHz.
Only with 7800 MT/s and more you're actually starting to overcome latency penalties caused by running in out of synch mode (2:1).
Yes it is marketing but still based on the IMC on the 9000 series chips. Just like when we went from 2933 to 3200 on 1700 to 2700 and then 3600 on 3300x but 5000 had to wait until the build quality of some X570 and X570S boards to support 4000. Unless we see some innovation in the IMC it will not improve. I agree with what you said about X3D. Don't forget about Smart Access Memory. Combine that with X3D and you are laughing. I really wonder how many people have 7900X3D (same Cache as 7950X3D) with 7900XT (20 GB VRAM buffer) then 6000 30 timings RAM (Team) and laugh at people that tell me Gaming at 4K on high is unachievable and I am lying about enjoying the performance of my PC. Now the slowest drive in my system is an SSD but it has 8 TB of storage. SSD RAID 0 is still my favourite form of RAID.
jpvalverde85This... I assembled just yesterday an R7 7700 over an Asus Prime B650M-A WIFI, first thing done updating BIOS, loaded the beta one with AGESA 1.2.0.2 and found the same with some USB 3.0 ports, speed degraded to USB 2.0 spec. I can't believe that AM5 still needs so much ironing out after 2 years on the market.
This is true but you did not get a B850 board either. On AM4 it was not until X470/B450 that rock solid performance and reliability were realized. Over time all boards will get the same support but there has to be an incentive for you to buy. Unfortunately I think AMD has been watching too much Youtube and missed the mark on USB 4.
Posted on Reply
#33
PenguinBelly
phintsAgree. 105W TDP + PBO + Curve Optimizer -15 will get you about +10% performance over stock 65W with roughly the same power consumption/thermals as stock. I do something similar even with my 4 year old 5800X, I use PBO + CO -20 and no wattage increase over stock.
105W cTDP = 140W PPT
65W cTDP = 88W PPT

Whichever way you slice, they are not "roughly same" power consumption/thermals.
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